aa5874

Do you not understand that the letter is about the Christians??
Pliny letter to Trajan
The Christian Superstition has spread all over--in the cities, the villages and farms.

Bithynia is being inundated by Christians who sacrificied animals.

The geography of the Jesus cult is NOT Bithynia.

Lucian, a Non-Apologetic source claimed there were Christians who worshiped a crucified man as a God in Palestine in the 2nd century.

Pliny's Christians did NOT even claim their Christ was crucified.

mountainman

Thanks for making the response to this suggestion anyway Andrew.

IMO you are one of the members here that continually adds content to the discussion threads on many issues regardless of their probability or improbability and I wish (perhaps in vain) that others here (no names of course) might see the sense in doing the same.

For the sake of the argument we could start with the god of Moses.

In regard to general improbabilities and probabilities, the suggestion that a 14th or 15th century academic came across a rare cache of letters including a letter exchange between a governor Pliny and a Roman Emperor Trajan where these two well known historical people were discussing Christians needs itself to be analysed. There are problems with it.

For example why didn't any Christian academic between the 2nd and the 14th century mention the existence of such a favourable citation to the historical existence of early Christians? I have seen answers to this question which make an appeal to the criterion of embarrassment and I don't want to go there.

In regard to general improbabilities and probabilities, the suggestion that a 14th or 15th century academic came across a rare cache of letters which instead presented Trajan and Pliny discussing the contagion of the Jews seems to be far more probable, all things being considered. Trajan was rather ruthless in his persecution against the Jews, and Pliny's requests on how Pliny should handle the problem of the Jews might be seen as Pliny wondering whether he should pursue such a hard line as his Emperor apparently did.

FWIW I don't know what the original manuscript actually said, and neither does any academic today because at some time after the Pliny-Trajan letter exchange was published in the 15th century the original manuscript was lost.

This is in itself rather suspicious. If the original manuscript actually related to the imperial government persecuting Christians then one would expect that such a manuscript would be very valuable evidence. OTOH if the original manuscript actually related to the imperial government persecuting Jews, but that someone had altered reference to the Jews (and their god) to a reference for Christians (and their god), then one would expect that the original of such a manuscript would never see the light of day.

aa5874

Andrew clearly states that he is giving an opinion--NOT evidence.

His input has consistently been to cast doubt on any evidence against the Church.
Andrew appears not able to admit that early Christian history has ZERO evidence for the 1st century.

Andrew must know that the word "Christ" alone does NOT refer to any specific person.

Theophilus of Antioch demonstrates that people of antiquity were called Christians because they themselves were Christ [Anointed].

Essentially, Theophilus of Antioch was Christ [Anointed]

Theophilus' To AutolycusAgain, examine Tertullian's Ad Nationes" Jesus did NOT have to exist for people to call themselves Christians because the word Christian is derived from the Greek word for Anointing.

Theophilus of Antioch and Athenagoras of Antioch called themselves Christians without ever making mention of Jesus Christ.

rlogan

Mark doesn't know Palestinian Geography.

Mark 7:31

And again he went out from the borders of Tyre, and came through Sidon unto the sea of Galilee, through the midst of the borders of Decapolis.




Wow, talk about blowing it! You would not go north to go South!

Tyre is on the coast, the furthest west and in the middle. Sidon is North, also on the coast. The Sea of Galilee is Southeast of Tyre. I have placed yellow marks at each city of the Decapolis. One is approximate and the rest I located exactly.

You encounter the Sea of Galilee before you enter the midst of the decapolis too, so this Geography in Mark couldn't be worse!

Sheshbazzar

Wonder he didn't go by way of Damscus, Unlike Rabbi Avram Belinski, he gots no took-iss for to follow. Meebe he justs gots lost in da wilderness fer 40 weeks?

'Chickie-chickie-chickie-chicken! Come here, ....'I don't want to hurt you, I just want to eat you. ...I don't want to hurt you! I just want to make you kosher!' :Cheeky:

rlogan

This is a better map of Mark's Geographic ignorance because the major and minor roads are marked:



To go from Tyre to Galilee would be directly East to Ceasaria Philippi, then South. You would get to the Sea before going through the midst of the Decapolis.

So how far away do you have to live from here in order to be this screwed up on geography? You can't be from anywhere near this region. The author of Mark is somewhere distant, yet in that Greek Sphere of the Eastern Empire.


Edit: Check this anti-skeptic site out that omits the critical road from the map above:


http://www.errantskeptics.org/TyreSidonMaps.htm

They show the mountain range being in the way to the East of Tyre, and anyone who can read the maps I have shown demonstrates that. But there is still a road there, and omitting it is... a lie for Jesus!

Sheshbazzar

No road leading from Sidon except back to Tyre, or further North, right off the map.

Definitly a weird route to take to reach the Sea of Galilee.


I note they show another road leading South-East out of Sidon, that does not appear on your map.
And as you say, they omit the road on you map that goes almost due East to Ceasaria Philippi.

Your map appears much more detailed, yet does not have that road SE from Sidon that they show.
Sombody's map here is less than accurate.

aa5874

The author of gMark never claimed he was writing history.

Jesus in gMark used to WALK on the sea.

Mark 6:48 KJV The Jesus story in gMark does NOT require history, biology or geography.

Sheshbazzar

I agree with you that Mark was writing fiction, but agree with rlogan that the writer seems to be a foreigner unfamiliar with the territory.

aa5874

Well, you must agree that he was unfamiliar with the specific gravity of the sea and the human body or a foreigner to reality.