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Old 03-16-2013, 12:27 AM   #421
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and let me just say that this attempted negation of religion - that it has no value because it isn't science or 'scientific' - is among the most annoying arguments of modern atheism. Religion never claimed that it could build a plane to fly at twice the speed of sound. If that's the measure of 'truth' - that 'it can help you build stuff' or 'understand stuff' then yes religion is retarded. But that's not what religion claimed to provide mankind. Therefore it is not negated by arguments about its unscientific character.
An investigation into when the Pauline letters were composed has absolutely NOTHING to do with the 'value" of Religion.

Such investigations are carried out universally in every part of the world.

An inquiry into the time that YOU yourself wrote any book has no direct relationiship to the value of Religion.

We have examined the NT Canon, Apologetic sources and have failed to find any credible corroborative evidence for Pauline letters before the end of the 1st century.

The argument that the Pauline letters were NOT composed before the Fall of the Temple c 70 CE is extremely good and is FAR Superior to any argument for early Pauline letters.
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:37 AM   #422
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science means 'wisdom.' That's it. That's it's root meaning. There was a time where religion was wisdom. .
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:57 AM   #423
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science means 'wisdom.' That's it. That's it's root meaning. There was a time where religion was wisdom. .
There was a time when the Jesus story was regarded as Foolishness according to the Pauline writings.

1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV
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But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned
1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV
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For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe .
There was a Time when the story of the Galileans was regarded as a fabricated Monstrous Fable--a Pack of Lies.


Julian's Against the Galileans
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It is, I think, expedient to set forth to all mankind the reasons by which I was convinced that the fabrication of the Galilaeans is a fiction of men composed by wickedness.

Though it has in it nothing divine, by making full use of that part of the soul which loves fable and is childish and foolish, it has induced men to believe that the monstrous tale is truth.
It is Imperative that we INVESTIGATE Paul and the Pauline letters.

Were the Pauline character and letters fabricated??

1600 years ago Julian the Emperor challenged everyone in the Roman Empire to produce corroboration for the existence of Jesus and Paul by well-known writers.

1600 years later, no-one in the ENTIRE world has been able to prove that Julian spoke falsely.

Julian's Against the Galileans
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But these are rather your own doings; for nowhere did either Jesus or Paul hand down to you such commands.................. But if you can show me that one of these men is mentioned by the well-known writers of that time,----these events happened in the reign of Tiberius or Claudius,----then you may consider that I speak falsely about all matters.
1. The Pauline character and letters were fabricated at least AFTER 190 CE or AFTER Marcion was Dead.

2. They are part of the Monstrous Fable composed by wickedness.

3. They were NOT known by any well-known authors of antiquity who wrote about events during the time of Tiberius and Claudius.
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:30 AM   #424
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and many more books......

Welcome, Ralph......

Thanks, Mary.

And as an aside, your moniker means Priestess Helena, in Syriac, much the same as Queen Helena may have been titled.


.
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:27 AM   #425
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Well that's funny because I am watching you do just that with your pretense of "tradition" being some holy (!) concept, above examination.
No I am saying that tradition - any tradition - is worthy of being respected. It shouldn't be treated as something contemptuous. Science works by constantly improving and bettering hypotheses. Whether you like them or not the Church Fathers represent a 'science' in the strictest sense of the original term.

They offered the world what they considered to be a wisdom of the highest order. It is our job to improve upon their understanding, not push it aside or flush it down the toilet.
You can paint a turd and polish it up, set it up on a pedestal and proclaim it to be glorious,
....but underneath, it will always remain a turd.

Flush the turds, not try to 'improve' upon them.
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Old 03-16-2013, 11:07 AM   #426
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that's why you're not a scholar
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:21 PM   #427
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that's why you're not a scholar
What?? Did a Scholar claim the Pauline Jesus was crucified in the Sub-lunar?? Did another claim Simon Magus=Paul??

How come Scholars can say such things??

If you are a Scholar why don't you accept that Scholars have claimed the Pauline letters were composed in the 2nd century??

You very well know that Scholars throughout the world are not expected to agree on all matters and even the dating of the Pauline letters.

I don't accept Scholars opinion when they have NO corroborative evidence.

Rejection of speculation from so-called Scholars is basic and fundamental in any investigation and is the norm universally.
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:26 PM   #428
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How come Scholars can say such things??
What can one say to a crazy person?
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:31 PM   #429
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How come Scholars can say such things??
What can one say to a crazy person?
Please, you must remember that you have "miranda rights". You have the right to remain silent.
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:41 PM   #430
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A butcher can't claim to be a nurse. There are distinctions that have to be made. Even if all scholars aren't perfect, your methodology and the methodology employed by others who post here don't even pretend to be objective or impartial. Scholars generally avoid writing sentences in block capital letters. They don't describe the thing they are studying as a 'turd' or Christians as 'morons' etc. (= Shesh). Just saying.
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