DoubtingDave

Hey everyone,

I am getting ready for a five part debate with Nadir Ahmed, a Muslim apologist. He has a website called "Examine the Truth" and I want your opinion on his Islamic evidence.

Chili

Are you looking for spectators? and is this an advertisement?

DoubtingDave

1) I'm looking for a team that will help me understand and research his arguments with me.
2) This is not an advertisement.
3) If you want to spectate, you are more than welcome.

Toto

What exactly is the debate topic?

Richard Carrier has some material on the claims that the Quran embodies advanced scientific thought

Chili

Ok thank you, I will certainly participate but I am not a researcher. So yes, let's go.

Pamela Spencer

I really don't have the time to review a Muslim apologist website. However, there are some points that may show up in a formal debate in favor of the Islamic evidence, namely:

-The Koran's support for an Ex Nihilo Universe (compare with Stephen Hawking)
-The cosmological Koranic claim: "The day" when, We shall roll up the heavens as a recorder rolls up a written scroll. As, We began the first creation We shall repeat it. Qur'an Chapter 21 Verse 104
(compare with NASA and suggested evidence of a geometrically "flat" universe)
-Companions of the Cave and the (potential) inclusion of the concept of decubitus ulcers.
-The Koranic depiction of the Raven/Crow as an animal that can (theoretically) perform compound behaviors (compare with TED conference presentation by Joshua Klein, "Amazing Intelligence of Crows")
-A progressive definition of "Jinns" as non-Homo Sapien hominids

DoubtingDave

Thank you everyone. responded to some of his claims here: http://challenging-religion.blogspot...ack-death.html

Pamela Spencer

Interesting. However, you are technically addressing Hadith Science and not Koran Science in that link.

Apparently, you did arrive at the correct conclusion:

"Conclusion: The Quran does not give the cure for the Black Death!"

Also, I'm not exactly sure if animals such as "wood chucks" or "prairie dogs" were ever endemic to Arabia, and whether or not they actually have designated names in Arabic or Syriac.

Igor Trip

Here are some arguments against Nadir Ahmed most likely points.
http://examinethetruth.com/evidence_for_islam.html

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The two seas.

55:19/20 He has let loosed the two seas meeting together. Between them is a barrier which none of them can transgress.

“Chapter 55:19, 20 of the Quran states that there are barriers in the sea. Science has confirmed this fact. The scientific term for this barrier is called the 'pycnocline'. The The Barrier Zones in the Ocean By E. M. Emelyanov, chapter 9 page 287 tells us the following about this barrier: “

Note it's “The Two Seas”. He's saying there are only two seas.
Another verse clearly shows they are fresh and salt water.
025.053: It is He Who has let free the two bodies of flowing water: One palatable and sweet, and the other salt and bitter; yet has He made a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to be passed.

Fresh water does flow over salt water but tides and storms easily mix them.

#
Cure for the bubonic plague: kill the rat and keep the cat

Volume 4, Book 54, Number 531:
Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet said, "Five kinds of animals are mischief-doers (fawasiq) and can be killed even in the Sanctuary: They are the rat the scorpion, the kite, the crow and the rabid dog."

Firstly this isn't in the Quran which has nothing to say about disease, and it should have.
Secondly It says nothing about preventing disease.
Thirdly why should crows and kites die?

#
Darkness in the deep seas

24:40 Or is like the darkness in a vast deep sea, overwhelmed with a great wave topped by a great wave, topped by dark clouds, darkness, one above another, if a man stretches out his hand, he can hardly see it! And he for whom Allah has not appointed light, for him there is no light.

Why would any one not believe the deep sea was dark? You often can't see the bottom of a river.

#
There are internal waves in the sea

Also surah 24:40 Or is like the darkness in a vast deep sea, overwhelmed with a great wave topped by a great wave, topped by dark clouds, darkness, one above another...

This is just a poetic description of a storm. Nothing more.

Internal waves are transparent and so are not a layer of darkness.

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Babies should-breast feed for 2 years

2:233 The mothers shall give suck to their children for two whole years, (that is) for those (parents) who desire to complete the term of suckling

But compare with this verse.
046.015
PICKTHAL:...and the bearing of him and the weaning of him is thirty months,

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Function of the Cerebrum

96:15/16 Nay! If he ceases not, We will catch him by the forelock, A lying, sinning forelock".

“In conclusion, the Quran states that the forehead engages in decision making such as lying and sinning. This is the virtually the exact region of the human body in which reasoning and judgment occurs. Therefore this verse of the Quran agrees with modern science. “

Except the verse says “Forelock” not “Forehead” and your forelock is just the hairs on the front of your head. Grasping the forelock of a horse is a good way of controlling it.

#
A prophecy about Adolf Hitler

7:167 And (remember) when your Lord declared that He would certainly keep on sending against them (i.e. the Jews), till the Day of Resurrection, those who would afflict them with a humiliating torment

Who isn't persecuted?