Freethought & Rationalism Archive

RainbowSerpent · 01-04-2006, 04:24 AM

I don't know whether or not this is the correct place for this alert. But I just wanted to give a heads up to any Australians (or anyone else interested) that the Australian government owned broadcaster (abc.net.au) is conducting a debate about the historical jesus on its website.

http://www2b.abc.net.au/religion/jesus/forum/

This forum is in response to a series of articles by a David H. Lewis and Professor William Loader.

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/stories/s1517078.htm

I haven't contributed myself yet because I have only just stumbled upon it.

For those non-Australians out there, I should explain that the Australian Broadcasting Commission is sort of like the BBC. It is wholly government funded, no advertising is allowed. It runs 8 or 10 radio stations, and 2 TV channels, as well as an excellent website. Its charter requires it to run a religious department. For the last 9 years it has been persecuted relentlessly by our right-wing government who accuse it of left wing bias and a lack of balance.

RainbowSerpent

Vorkosigan · 01-04-2006, 05:03 AM

Post to BCH!

EverLastingGodStopper · 01-04-2006, 06:19 AM

I can move this whole thread to BC&H! In fact...

Apikorus · 01-04-2006, 07:23 AM

Note the links to Peter Kirby's sites.

Toto · 01-04-2006, 11:30 AM

Thanks. This looks fascinating.

David H. Lewis "Escaping the Gravitational Pull of the Gospels relies on Wells.

Quote:

Professor Wells, after a stint as a coal miner, was originally destined for the priesthood but first had to decide if he could really believe what he was required to preach. It is perhaps ironic that his journey from Christianity to atheism has made him one of the world’s foremost authorities on early Christian history. Theology is notorious for the obscurity of much of its theorizing but his many books are refreshing beacons of clarity. With a hint of humour he approvingly quotes one of his own inspirations, the German theologian Wrede, who, in echo of the Beatitudes, remarked, “Blessed are the unpretentious in speech, for they shall be understood�?. Wells himself has written widely on language – e.g., Critique of Pure Verbiage, The Origin of Language, What’s in a Name? – and exhibits little patience with untouchable icons of linguistics like Professors Stephen Pinker or Noam Chomsky. His works encompass an amazing breadth of scholarship –the bibliography for his 1986 Did Jesus Exist? runs to nearly 450 references. His manner of debate is unfailingly urbane and courteous.

In the end we must surely ask ourselves, “If the very first Christians knew so little about Jesus, what possible grounds do we have for believing he ever existed?�?

David H. Lewis of Queensland is an ancient history teacher and author of the forth-coming, The Book That Changed the World, a novel about the gospels that is not based on a true story!

Reply by William Loader

Quote:

This means that simply to construct the historical Jesus from the gospel accounts as if they are first-hand testimony is fraught with difficulty. This awareness is at least 150 years old, but still not widely appreciated. History is complex and people often want simplicity. For some people faith seems to demand simplicity to the degree that they need to pretend (or lie) about history’s complexity.

He links to Mark Goodacre who features the Jesus Seminar.

Reply by Lewis

Quote:

thank Professor Loader for his observations on my arguments against Jesus’ existence ("The Fraught Project of Finding the Historical Jesus").

Firstly it appears that we share a lot of common ground for he readily agrees that starting from the earliest sources does give us a Jesus dramatically different from the gospels and he accepts that Paul appears to know “next to nothing�? about Jesus’ ministry.

It is also encouraging to find him speaking so frankly and bluntly about the “dishonesty�? often employed in sustaining indefensible traditional perspectives. Even if we charitably tone that down to “incompetence�?, this debate will have been well worth-while if it puts future program producers and writers on notice that they can no longer merely recycle Sunday School stories and pretend they’re authoritative interpretations of Biblical events – the BBC and PBS (in America) are particular culprits.

He later mentions Doherty.

Loader's reply descends to mentioning the criterion of embarrassment.

youngalexander · 01-04-2006, 06:47 PM

I gave a 'heads Up' to this some time back message spreads but it got lost in the wash.

I stuck my oar in as Mythicist Physicist and will reply to comments in due course. The 'debate' proceeds at a leisurely pace.

Besides, Xmas got in the way and we take that very seriously in the antipodes.

RainbowSerpent · 01-04-2006, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngalexander

I gave a 'heads Up' to this some time back message spreads but it got lost in the wash.

I stuck my oar in as Mythicist Physicist and will reply to comments in due course. The 'debate' proceeds at a leisurely pace.

Besides, Xmas got in the way and we take that very seriously in the antipodes.

Sorry I missed it.

RainbowSerpent

01-04-2006, 04:24 AM	#1
RainbowSerpent Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: FantasyLand Posts: 409	australian broadcasting comm. website forum I don't know whether or not this is the correct place for this alert. But I just wanted to give a heads up to any Australians (or anyone else interested) that the Australian government owned broadcaster (abc.net.au) is conducting a debate about the historical jesus on its website. http://www2b.abc.net.au/religion/jesus/forum/ This forum is in response to a series of articles by a David H. Lewis and Professor William Loader. http://www.abc.net.au/religion/stories/s1517078.htm I haven't contributed myself yet because I have only just stumbled upon it. For those non-Australians out there, I should explain that the Australian Broadcasting Commission is sort of like the BBC. It is wholly government funded, no advertising is allowed. It runs 8 or 10 radio stations, and 2 TV channels, as well as an excellent website. Its charter requires it to run a religious department. For the last 9 years it has been persecuted relentlessly by our right-wing government who accuse it of left wing bias and a lack of balance. RainbowSerpent

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01-04-2006, 05:03 AM	#2
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	Post to BCH!

01-04-2006, 06:19 AM	#3
EverLastingGodStopper Banned Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 16,665	I can move this whole thread to BC&H! In fact...

01-04-2006, 07:23 AM	#4
Apikorus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,396	Note the links to Peter Kirby's sites.

01-04-2006, 06:47 PM	#6
youngalexander Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mornington Peninsula Posts: 1,306	I gave a 'heads Up' to this some time back message spreads but it got lost in the wash. I stuck my oar in as Mythicist Physicist and will reply to comments in due course. The 'debate' proceeds at a leisurely pace. Besides, Xmas got in the way and we take that very seriously in the antipodes.

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