Loomis

Phlox,

Just to let you know - you are making a lot of great points .

What does JoeWallack look like when he hides?

What does JoeWallack look like when he can’t support his claims with facts?

When you are through poking at JoeWallack I would love to hear your thoughts on what you think Psalm 22 might mean.

Loomis

Grandma pulls the turkey from the oven. She sets it in the middle of the table and tells the kids, “Dig in!”

Loomis

Hey Spin,

What is Yahweh/ Baal doing in this picture with his rod of iron?

http://www.ifar.org/cunieformfig5.jpg

1) Digging at the worm?

Or,

2) Piercing the worm?

judge

One thing in favor of Spin's take here might be that, "they pierce my hands and my feet." makes no sense (as far as I can see).

Sure, it makes sense retrospectively, when one brings to crucifixion into consideration.

But are we really to believe that for hundreds of years before this we had a non-sensical reading?

Unless there is some idiom there or some non obvious meaning.

Anat

Loomis, is there any other place where the root kaf-resh-he means anything but digging in the ground? Is there any place where it means piercing?

Phlox Pyros

Psalm 40:7

Anat

Yes, that's a metaphoric usage I was aware of (though not necessarily from Biblical sources, it's an expression still in use today) - see my post #24. Still no piercing.

Loomis

Not from what I’ve read. But I just began looking.

It seems to me like this verse is broken. If we want to get anywhere then maybe we should consider the context.

The speaker says “I am a worm,” and then goes on to say something about 'hands and feet'.

Do you think this is just bad poetry?

Verse 22 says, “roll yourself to Yahweh.”

A worm would roll itself to Yahwah.

Loomis

See the picture:

http://www.ifar.org/cunieformfig5.jpg

I think the worm in Psalm 22 is Yam the sea monster. He is also called Rehab, the dragon, and the Leviathan. See Job 41 and Isaiah 27.

I think that Psalm 22 is a combination of, and borrows from, earlier monster stories.

I think that in Psalm 22 Yahweh and El are different gods. I think “Yahweh” is a rewrite of Baal.

In Psalm 22 Yam is getting attacked by Yahweh/ Baal. Yam begs El to come to his rescue but El (acting on the request of others) sits of the sidelines and allows Yahweh/ Baal to “delight” in him.

I encourage everyone to study up of this.

I’ll be back in about 20 hours, and I’ll be happy to explain my comments and answer any questions.

Loomis

One more thing …

Job 41:3

Will it (the Leviathan) make numerous supplications to you,
will it speak to you with tender words?

Compare …

Psalm 22

El! El! Why have you abandoned me?

You are the one who brought me out from the womb
and made me feel secure on my mother’s breasts.

I have been dependent on you since birth;
from the time I came out of my mother’s womb you have been my god.