Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ELECTROGOD · 01-26-2006, 08:19 PM

Well, pretending that the bible is flawless I'd have to say that I don't like the new covers. I thought that the old way of putting scrolls in clay pots was much better and looks prettier on my coffee table.

AV-98 Ingram · 01-26-2006, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul2

Why would i pretend that the bible is flawless? It's the word of god, so of course it's flawless.

And yet everyone else says that about their holy book.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul2

I mean, have you actually read the bible?

I just finished reading it again a week ago and that would make that four times at this point IIRC. As much of a bore it is, I read it every few years to remind myself why I'm not a Christian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul2

If you read it with god's holy spirit in your heart you will understand.

More like if you read it already presupposing that the Christian God exists and that this is his holy book you will understand.

show_no_mercy · 01-27-2006, 07:37 AM

If free will is what allows sin to enter the world, and heaven is supposedly devoid of sin, then this means that we lose free will when we enter heaven

TomboyMom · 01-27-2006, 08:04 AM

O.K., I think I understand better what you're looking for. Well, if I were Jewish or Christian and believed what the bible says, I would have a big problem with the way God goes around slaying people left and right, and commanding the Israelites to slay all the Thisites and Thatites in the neighborhood. I'm not really familiar with the geography, but he lists so many --ites that he wants them to slay, you get the impression he wanted them to slaughter everyone in the vicinity. And he often makes sure to command them to kill every living thing, or everything but the trees, and to be sure to kill the toddlers and babies, it's really sickening. He never says they've done anything wrong, just "I gave this land to you, go kill the people who happen to be living there." This isn't like the Weekly World News spreading nasty rumors about God, this is their version of the story! It's sickening. I would just have a huge theological problem with that.

Clivedurdle · 01-27-2006, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul2

Why would i pretend that the bible is flawless? It's the word of god, so of course it's flawless. I mean, have you actually read the bible? If you read it with god's holy spirit in your heart you will understand.

Did all of that many years ago, but it seems God made a mistake by giving me a brain and allowing me to think.

Little things 1+1+1 =1

14 billion years.

Evolution and the universe not needing goddidit.

Sociological, historical, anthropological, neurological and psychology explanations of religion.

Religious like behaviour being observed in other primates

Our love of and superb skills of story telling.

Addictive behaviours.

Power over others.

That we are all very suggestable.

That the problem it is pretending to solve does not exist - we are not all basically sinful who need this blood sacrifice by the son of the creator of the universe to resolve issues of holiness.

That religiously minded solutions do not on the whole solve problems - the people who question and challenge do!

TomboyMom · 01-27-2006, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul2

Why would i pretend that the bible is flawless? It's the word of god, so of course it's flawless. I mean, have you actually read the bible? If you read it with god's holy spirit in your heart you will understand.

How do you know the bible is the word of God?

show_no_mercy · 01-27-2006, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomboyMom

How do you know the bible is the word of God?

Duh! Because it says it is! The bible is the word of god because it says so. And being the word of god, anything it claims to be is totally credible!

MrWhy · 01-27-2006, 09:02 AM

There's no evidence that the Bible (or Quran) was the direct word of god, the revelation of a god, or even the inspiration of a god. Everything there could have come from the imagination and pen (chisel?) of mortal humans.

There are only two types of information in a religious scrupture that would indicate the source was a supernatural god.
1. Specific detail information about early earth history that is confirmed by current knowledge. Early history that only an omnificent creator could know and reveal at the time scriptures were composed.
2. Accurate detailed predictions/prophecies about current events. If these exist then they would be evidence that a god reveled them to those writing scriptures. There are claimed prophecies, but they lack specific detail, and require creative interpretation of the scripture in order to match any current event.

It may be an interesting book to study mythology, but in view of the above, why is there any need to discuss any other characteristic of the bible.

Plastic Jesus · 01-27-2006, 08:24 PM

"If free will is what allows sin to enter the world, and heaven is supposedly devoid of sin, then this means that we lose free will when we enter heaven"

That's another good one that I forgot. If free will is so important that God lets trillons of humans go to hell for having it, then why is it taken away when we get into heaven? Either that, or we can lose paradise once we get in. OR, free will doesn't exist (which Calvinists believe, and I'm going to sit down with one soon and discuss theology).

Plastic Jesus · 01-27-2006, 08:28 PM

The rest of the arguments given were ones that I asked not to have, btw.

People made the religion up, the Bible is not valid, etc etc

Oh, except for evolution. That's a small point, but I've found evolutionists who are Christians as well, and they've explained to me how they mesh (it being not literally one man, one woman, one tree, etc, obviously).

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01-26-2006, 08:19 PM	#21
ELECTROGOD Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: GR, MI USA Posts: 4,009	Well, pretending that the bible is flawless I'd have to say that I don't like the new covers. I thought that the old way of putting scrolls in clay pots was much better and looks prettier on my coffee table.

01-27-2006, 07:37 AM	#23
show_no_mercy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Dancing Posts: 9,940	If free will is what allows sin to enter the world, and heaven is supposedly devoid of sin, then this means that we lose free will when we enter heaven

01-27-2006, 08:04 AM	#24
TomboyMom Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,931	O.K., I think I understand better what you're looking for. Well, if I were Jewish or Christian and believed what the bible says, I would have a big problem with the way God goes around slaying people left and right, and commanding the Israelites to slay all the Thisites and Thatites in the neighborhood. I'm not really familiar with the geography, but he lists so many --ites that he wants them to slay, you get the impression he wanted them to slaughter everyone in the vicinity. And he often makes sure to command them to kill every living thing, or everything but the trees, and to be sure to kill the toddlers and babies, it's really sickening. He never says they've done anything wrong, just "I gave this land to you, go kill the people who happen to be living there." This isn't like the Weekly World News spreading nasty rumors about God, this is their version of the story! It's sickening. I would just have a huge theological problem with that.

01-27-2006, 09:02 AM	#28
MrWhy Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: USA Posts: 453	There's no evidence that the Bible (or Quran) was the direct word of god, the revelation of a god, or even the inspiration of a god. Everything there could have come from the imagination and pen (chisel?) of mortal humans. There are only two types of information in a religious scrupture that would indicate the source was a supernatural god. 1. Specific detail information about early earth history that is confirmed by current knowledge. Early history that only an omnificent creator could know and reveal at the time scriptures were composed. 2. Accurate detailed predictions/prophecies about current events. If these exist then they would be evidence that a god reveled them to those writing scriptures. There are claimed prophecies, but they lack specific detail, and require creative interpretation of the scripture in order to match any current event. It may be an interesting book to study mythology, but in view of the above, why is there any need to discuss any other characteristic of the bible.

01-27-2006, 08:24 PM	#29
Plastic Jesus Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Kentucky, USA Posts: 133	"If free will is what allows sin to enter the world, and heaven is supposedly devoid of sin, then this means that we lose free will when we enter heaven" That's another good one that I forgot. If free will is so important that God lets trillons of humans go to hell for having it, then why is it taken away when we get into heaven? Either that, or we can lose paradise once we get in. OR, free will doesn't exist (which Calvinists believe, and I'm going to sit down with one soon and discuss theology).

01-27-2006, 08:28 PM	#30
Plastic Jesus Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Kentucky, USA Posts: 133	The rest of the arguments given were ones that I asked not to have, btw. People made the religion up, the Bible is not valid, etc etc Oh, except for evolution. That's a small point, but I've found evolutionists who are Christians as well, and they've explained to me how they mesh (it being not literally one man, one woman, one tree, etc, obviously).

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