vid

Mountainman often speaks how no physically preserved pre-4th century document contains words "Jesus" or "Christ", always just shortened form.

Isn't there a single example (like numerological interpretation of "Iesous" or something like that)? What time do we find first fully spelled-out "Iesous" and/or "Christos"? What are the various shortcuts used (Jesus = IS, Christos = XS, Jesus Christ = ??)? Are these words always marked as nomina sacra (upper line) in most ancient documents? Any possible connections of "IS" towards "Isa" version being more ancient rendering than "Iesous"?

I have to admit I never found this topic covered deeper anywhere, so I'd welcome some basic introduction to known facts.

Doug Shaver

If I remember correctly and he hasn't changed his mind, Mountainman thinks that if any document contains the words "Jesus" or "Christ," then it can't be pre-4th century.

stephan huller

Iesous by Irenaeus (c. 180 CE) in his discussion of the Marcosians in Book 1 and implicitly at least in Book 2.24 (from memory) when he rejects that name as Jesus's actual name.

Chreistos appears in Irenaeus too in the Marcosian section.

XS doesn't derive from Christos originally. It was used in margins of manuscripts BEFORE Christianity was ever established to mean 'right' or 'checked' (XrestoS) - i.e. noting that the section of text was clear of errors - once again proving that the Marcionites retained the original understanding of the terminology.

Clivedurdle

Having just seen a programme on science and Islam that discusses algebra, we aren't looking at an expression like x which acts as a placemaker are we?

Could this be experimental writing - does this essay make sense if I use a general signifier? Algebra in writing?

Maybe the term god is best understood as early non arithmetic algebra. The sound that expresses the first cause who we worship and give thanks to.

What was that about gnostics and neo-pythagoreans?

stephan huller

I don't think so. I would have to read David Trobisch again or maybe call him up. He has a whole section on this in his First Edition of the New Testament

popgoestheweasel

Doesn't Joshua have two names in the LXX - Oshea and Iesous?

darstec

Most definitely. Futhermore Oshea is also spelled Osea too in English. Same name in Greek however.

Loomis

There are conflicting attitudes about the Lord’s name. These attitudes may have changed over time – or maybe there was never any agreement about the Lord’s name in the first place.

Compare …

stephan huller

But the Marcionites were adamant that Jesus WASN'T YHWH

Loomis

But I never said anything about Marcionites.