Ljoilae

I was just curious if anyone else read something in Genesis to mean the same thing as me.

I do not have the specific verses since I don't have any Bibles, but in Genesis there's some stuff about the sky seperating 'the waters above' from 'those below' or something to that effect. The only thing coming near to any sense to me about it would it meaning the writers thought we lived in a bubble or in a dome under a sea or something else wacko (is rain caused by the dome leaking? )

So, is that what it sounds like to anyone else?

darstec

Yup, you got the general idea. The firmament was a dome, a helmet shaped/pounded thing. The earth was flat and rested on pillars.

mountainman

Meanwhile, thousands of years
before Genesis was conceived ...


At first was neither Being nor Nonbeing.
There was not air nor yet sky beyond.
What was wrapping? Where? In whose protection?
Was Water there, unfathomable deep?
There was no death then, nor yet deathlessness;
of night or day there was not any sign.
The One breathed without breath by its own impulse.
Other than that was nothing at all.

Darkness was there, all wrapped around by darkness,
and all was Water indiscriminate, Then
that which was hidden by Void, that One, emerging,
stirring, through power of Ardor, came to be.

In the beginning Love arose,
which was primal germ cell of mind.
The Seers, searching in their hearts with wisdom,
discovered the connection of Being in Nonbeing.

A crosswise line cut Being from Nonbeing.
What was described above it, what below?
Bearers of seed there were and mighty forces,
thrust from below and forward move above.

Who really knows? Who can presume to tell it?
Whence was it born? Whence issued this creation?
Even the Gods came after its emergence.
Then who can tell from whence it came to be?

That out of which creation has arisen,
whether it held it firm or it did not,
He who surveys it in the highest heaven,
He surely knows - or maybe He does not!

-Translation by Prof. Raimundo Panikkar (Ref. 3, pp 58)


Pete Brown
http://www.mountainman.com.au/news97_8.html

Kosh

Here is a link with a nice picture of Hebrew Cosmology

Now you know why there are no illustrations in the bible!

Lunawalk

When was an christian I did not notice the verse about the waters above and below the firmament. when I did notice my eyes were opened. It clincked the my viiew that the bible contain the views of the people of that time. They believed that the sun is just above the surface of this earth, above the sun was the stars attached to the firmament. so when Jesus says the stars will fall to the earth. he was just a man of his timesYou could also make sense of the fllod of naah

yet some christian says yes there waters above the earth. that accounted for the lush conditions of the gardin of eden and the long life spands of the early bibleical characters. It's surprising that some people will use the creation story to prove evolution. such as ken Miller

Mythra

And Jesus, through whom "all things were created", was under the impression that the stars could fall from the sky.

Oh, I see lunawalk already mentioned this.

Great minds think alike, I guess.

Lunawalk

Thanks
I these texts about the Hebrew cosmology discredit the view that the christian god is the creator of the universe. Of course Christians reinterpent these verses about falling the earth to meators falling to earth. in order to survive religion must evole

Kosh

Let's not jump to conclusions!

Maybe he subbed out the architecture part....

Lunawalk

I don't understand what you mean. Just what to be clear on what you are saying

mountainman

Another physical interpretation of the "ocean above" and the
"ocean below" is to view the ocean above as the cosmic ocean
in which the entire planet (and indeed the solar system is embedded).

Here is an ancient post describing this "ocean of light":
http://www.mountainman.com.au/news97_4.html

Essentially, the ancients viewed the cosmic element as separately
sourced from the terrestrial elements (of nature). In the cosmologies
of various traditions in various Epochs in various lands, the terrestrial
elements (of ancient proto-physics) were viewed as earth, water, air
and fire, yet there was a fifth.

Guthrie traces the emergent conception of the Greek "aither" or "aether"
aka the "quintessence", and attributed to the "cosmic element" out of
which all other elements (of nature) are comprised.

It is an exceedingly subtle element, and modern science cannot find
evidence for its existence...

In the eastern lands, millenia beforehand, the same was called "akasha"
also meaning "the cosmic space" which is also part of earth, but sourced
from the totality of the vastness of the cosmos (ie: universe).

This cosmic element, the aether, has been disposed of for the last century
in the cosnideration of physicists, due to the success of the theory of
relativity (special) which required no postulate involving this "luminiferous
aether" through which the earth was supposed to move.

Nevertheless, one hunded years after the banishment of aether (from the
peer-reviewed physics publication system) other entities are being raised
in order to explain the general theory of relativity and gravity, such as
this "dark matter" and "dark energy" required in order that the gravitational
systematics of certain galaxies be rationally interpretted.

The long and the short of it is that gravity (the universal interaction)
may be explained by mathematics of missile trajectories, but there exists
no underly understanding of its mechanism. The cosmos is not known.
Assertions to the contrary are the ignorant claims of jeveniles, brought
up to believe that the 21st century knows more than the ancients.

So the cosmic ocean through which the solar system and the earth is
bourne, may be considered to be this upper ocean, not only by the
ancients, but also by us supposed moderns.

For those interested in the physics aspect of this, I have maintained
an index of emergent scientific theories of the aether for some time
now at this location:

http://www.mountainman.com.au/aetherqr.htm

You will see here that other scientific researchers refer to the concept
of aether using different terminology, such as "quantum foam", but essentially
the concept being presented is the same used by the ancients.



Pete Brown
QUOTE FORTHE DAY:

And they allowed Apollonius to ask questions;
and he asked them of what they thought the cosmos was composed;
but they replied:
"Of elements."

"Are there then four" he asked.

"Not four," said Iarchas, "but five."

"And how can there be a fifth," said Apollonius,
"alongside of water and air and earth and fire ?"

"There is the ether", replied the other,
"which we must regard as the stuff of which gods are made;
for just as all mortal creatures inhale tbe air,
so do immortal and divine natures inhale the ether."

Apollonius again asked which was the first of the elements,
and Iarchas answered:

"All are simultaneous, for a living creature is not born bit by bit."

"Am I," said Apollonius, "to regard
the universe as a living creature?"

"Yes," said the other, "if you have a sound knowledge of it,
for it engenders all living things."

- The Life of Apollonius of Tyana, Philostratus, 220AD.

http://www.mountainman.com.au/apollonius_of_tyana.htm