LoneWolf

I'm confused then. If most Christians believe Christ fullfilled the laws of the OT and therefore no longer have to adhere to them, then what is the basis against homosexuality? Is there somewhere in the NT that revisits that issue and indicates that it is still in effect?

pharoah

Which set of 10 Commandments? And if that's the case, why don't most Christians keep the sabbath?

Nectaris

Short answer - yes. You might want to check out the first chapter of Romans, starting about verse 25.

Dave

Toto

This part of Romans indicates that wicked men and women have turned to unnatural deviant sex. Homosexuality appears to be the result of their foolishness, not necessarily a violation of any law from the Hebrew Scriptures.

There are a number of threads and several formal debates on the question of whether the New Testament forbids homosexual sex.

LoneWolf

Thanks. Found it. Romans 1:26

LoneWolf

Would this be in line with the NT saying it is BETTER not to marry, but certainly does not forbid it?

Toto

Not exactly. Marriage is never a sin, although it might be a distraction. Homosexuality is a violation of the Hebrew Scriptures on the one hand, or a sign of a disordered or unnatural condition on the other. No one is advised to give in to their homoerotic feelings rather than to burn, as far as I know.

punk77

Where I come from the fundamentalists say that they do not have to follow the 4th Commandment as 'the laws were nailed to the cross' but when I point out that if one commandment was nullified then so were the rest as it does not single any one commandment out. Then they have to rely on evasions, distortions and fabrications to show why the other nine are still relevant:huh:.

Here is a link to a good site that gives the case for a Saturday Sabbath

http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bi...tem=1104414149

Skeptical

You are assuming there is a rational answer regarding the Christian relationship to Judaism and the "old" laws. There is not. In truth, Christians simply follow whichever parts of the OT, law or not, that they happen to feel comfortable with or that their church tells them to follow. It's really no more reasonable or complicated than that.

Case in point, I've never met a Christian who refused to eat shellfish, yet it is an "abomination". (Lev 11:10 KJV). :huh:

noah

Ridiculous. The OT laws, all of them, are binding forever. Every one of them. No mention of ceremonial law or Paul.

Psa 119:152,160
Paul actually didn't know what he as talking about (as always). If he had bothered to read the Jewish scripture he was mauling, he would have discovered that the expected Christ (Messiah) would not be the end of the law but would bring in a a new era of compliance with the law.

Ezek 37:24
Ezek 36:27
Since when was Paul empowered to override any of God's declarations and commandments about God's law, a law which he says lasts forever.

Psa 111:7-8
God, and not Paul, endures and reigns forever.

If Christians want to keep saying over and over and over again that the bible is the word of God and that they love this god then they should not ignore the instructions he gave to his followers long before some guy named Paul showed up with his new doctrine of faith in a human blood sacrifice.
What I don't get is why Christians call themselves Christians when the man they keep citing is Paul. Paul may have said the law is over or fulfilled. But that's not, repeat not what JC said.

In Revelations JC makes it clear that the law is the ticket to salvation:

Revelation 14:12 (KJV)
Revelation 22:14
Look at Matthew 5:17-20
JC himself says he has not come to destroy the law which is what, in effect, Paul did:
Now you may argue that JC does say he came to fulfil but what does that mean? Well if he meant to negate the law than he is a blathering idiot because he contradicts himself flatly in the next verses in this passage and in Revelation.

JC then makes it clear you have to obey every iota of the commandments. Every single commandment is binding and valid.

Has all been fulfilled? Was it all fulfilled with JC's death? Answer:No. How do we know all has not been fulfilled? Easy. We take a look at the Book of Revelation. The Book of Revelations states quite clearly that all will be finished and accomplished at some mysterious indeterminate point in the future. For example, Revelations 17:17 (King James Version) shows that all - the word of God - has not been fulfilled:
Has the word of God been fulfilled?
Have heaven and earth passed away? Answer? No. And the law is to be obeyed until they do.
If everything were accomplished already, the following verse is meaningless.
Obviously, Jesus' death accomplished nothing and the law , God's law, is still binding just as it was the day God delivered it to Moses.

Moving along to the next verse:5:19 we see that JC reinforces the applicability of God's law stating that anyone, repeat anyone, who breaks one of even the lesser commandments or teaches people not to obey the law shall suffer some form of damnation:

Moreover, and here's the kicker: JC declares that in order to be saved you must act more righteously than the Pharisees did :

and as you know the Pharisees followed the law.

Jesus also said:
What is the will of the Father regarding the Law?
God spells this out clearly in the Old Testament.
Please note that in all of the Jewish scripture which Christians ignorantly and arrogantly call the Old Testament, there is no mention of God's law being cancelled by Paul or anyone like Paul. There is no mention of the law being fulfilled which I happen to think is one of the silliest concepts in religion today. Whoever heard of a law, any law, being fulfilled? What does that mean? Does that mean I can stop eating because eating has been fulfilled? Are our laws today designed to be "fulfilled?
Is there any textual support for this "fulfillment" anywhere in the so-called OT? Answer? No.