semiopen

Just a remark on the JPS translation of Genesis 34:2-3:

Here, the translator says aneha means humbled in 34:2. 34:3 almah morphs into damsel instead of young woman.

As discussed in my OP the Artscroll Interlinear translates almah in this verse as maiden.

My English is much better than my Hebrew and both damsel and maiden suggest a women who is not the village slut, and probably a virgin.

Why is the same word in Isaiah 7:14 translated as young woman? I have great respect for translators (especially Jewish ones) but it is certainly plausible that one reason might be a desire to avoid a polemical attack from coreligionists over a sensitive verse.

credoconsolans

There isn't? Then did the Hebrews not care if a woman was a virgin or not when she came to be married because there was no word that specifically defined one? So when a father presented his daughter as marriage fodder he could fudge a little on describing her sexual condition?

semiopen

One would have to use more than one word to describe the situation.

Numbers 31:18:

where "lo yodeau mishkav zachar" literally "no she know lying male" is a virgin.

Or Genesis 19:8, Lot offers his daughters in Sodom

where "lo yodeau ish" ish = man.

If they wanted to make sure we understood virgin, they could have used a few more words, on the other hand they understood Hebrew better than we do.

show_no_mercy

Interestingly, in the LXX the single word used for the women is gynaikos in Numbers 31. Not sure what the significance of that is, but you'd think that if they wanted to emphasize their virginity, they would use parthenos (or maybe even koritsi?).

Iskander

The NRSV and the New Jerusalem bibles also translate Isaiah 7:14 as a woman already pregnant
Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel


http://www.devotions.net/bible/00bible.htm
http://www.catholic.org/bible/book.php?id=29

There is an interesting discussion of Hebrew grammar here (page 21 ff):

http://upetd.up.ac.za/thesis/availab...02chapter2.pdf

Iskander

Dinah:
The verb 'ānāh refers to humiliation, but when combined with shākāb, “to lie with”, it evokes the sense of sexual dishonour, but not necessarily a violent act

The alleged rape could have been nothing more than illicit sex between consenting adults.
The sons of Jacob describe the behaviour of Shechem as nebālāh and therefore a grave insult to the house of Jacob whether or not Dinah consented to sexual intercourse.

The story of Dinah is an ancient tale of lovers being punished for breaking the existing traditions: their love was unacceptable to society, just as the love of Romeo and Juliet was in another story

JoeWallack

JW:
I've inventoried the issue of the proper translation of "almah" here:

Matthew 1:23

at ErrancyWiki

This isn't much of an issue in Polemics anymore. Christianity lost the battle for "almah" 50 years ago. Rightly dividing Christian Bible scholarship into:

1) Liberal

2) Mainstream

3) Conservative

4) Fundamentalist

1) - 3) all accept that "almah" does not equal "virgin". The fundamentalists are split on the issue. Generally Christianity would confess that "virgin" is based on interpretation and not translation.

As a counter-missionary the subject is boring as there really isn't anyone to argue with. Steven Avery would be the type of Christian who would still argue for "virgin". If anyone would like to present a defense of "virgin" at ErrancyWiki be my guest.

The starting point is the use of "almah" in the Jewish Bible:

Meaning of "Almah"

JW:

Note that none of these uses give a technical definition of "virgin" or by context even a preferential meaning of "virgin" over "young woman"/"maiden".
Note especially that Proverbs 30:19 and Song of Solomon 1:3 and 6:8 seem to preclude "virgin".

The Wiki article cited isn't very good.



Joseph

ErrancyWiki

credoconsolans

Thanks. Sounds like fudging to me. A Hebrew woman could be queen of the BJs and makeouts, but so long as she didn't go 'all the way' and was a virgin so that they could prove it (she had an intact hymen) she was fine.

semiopen

Thanks Joseph,

This is impressive.

Just a few comments:

You don't mention the almah referrences in Dinah, is this because the type is covered in one of your other references?

Your comments deal with almah as not meaning virgin, yet you equate almah with young woman/maiden. My understanding of maiden is that there is at least a hint that a maiden is a virgin. The issue with translating almah to young woman is that it loses some of the respect implied by the term almah. For example a zona (harlot) would not be referred to as an almah although certainly she might be a young woman.

You also claim that Betulah has a hard meaning of virgin. I believe this is not completely accurate as there are several passages where Betulah is translated as maiden.

My understanding is that almah means young lady->maiden and Betulah means maiden -> virgin.

The actual translation of almah in Isaiah 7:14 as young woman therefore might be criticized as not conveying the actual meaning of the term used there, damsel and maiden seems to be a better choice.

Your explanation of the tense issue in the Isaiah passage seems clear to me, but, as you acknowledge, it is not known to a certainty that Isaiah knew the almah he wrote about.

Iskander

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I could not find the word almah in Genesis 34:3. I don’t know why.

My reading of Genesis 34:3 is that the Hebrew word used for girl/maiden is naarah

I am only a learner, though