Steven Carr

http://drjimwest.wordpress.com/2006/...tmas-pageants/

Dr. Jim West's basic argument is that Matthew calls the Jesus-child a 'paidion', while Luke calls him a 'brephos' in verse 2:12.


What is the signficance of this? Dr. Jim West explains :- Matthew calls Jesus 'a παιδιον. Not an infant (as in Luke) but a very young child, a toddler. A toddler is older than an infant...'

Yes, a toddler is older than an infant, but how much older? 8 days older?

In Luke 2:21, Luke calls Jesus a παιδιον , presumably not an infant, but a very young child, a toddler.

Was Jesus really toddling at 8 days old?

Or is this another example of the lengths people go to make two passages harmonise no matter what the cost.

If Matthew intended his story to be set 2 years later than Luke's , we have Mary and Joseph leaving Nazareth for Bethlehem for the census, going back to Nazareth after Jesus circumcised, and then going back to Bethlehem in time for the Magi to look for the child who had a rather delayed star announcing his birth.

Why would Mary and Joseph go back to Bethlehem , only to be warned to leave it again?

Why not just warn them to stay in Nazareth?

It all makes no sense.

dzim77

Herod's decree to kill all children 2 years or younger might support this idea. Notice that he made the decree "in accordance with the time he learned from the Maji." ... indicating he may have learned the apporximate age of the child from the Maji.

Steven Carr

Presumably with a 100% margin of error, if Jesus was 2 and all children under 2 were also to be killed.

Why then would Mary and Joseph return to Bethlehem from Nazareth?

According to Luke, they only went there to register. Why go back?

And Dr. Jim West's linguistic difference seems to be a red herring....

After all both Matthew and Luke use exactly the same word to describe the child.

Malachi151

Hehe, my comment to their blog:

Steven Carr

I wonder if it will be posted. Dr.Jim West doesn't seem to want his readers to know that Matthew and Luke use exactly the same word to describe the child Jesus.

West writes 'a παιδιον. Not an infant (as in Luke) but a very young child, a toddler.'

Luke in Luke 2:21 calls the 8 day old Jesus a παιδιον. Presumably Jesus was toddling at 8 days old.

Of course, the baby Jesus receiving gold does not square too well with Christian abjurations of material wealth.

But it does accord well with old traditions of mythical heroes having unusual entrances into the world, which somehow mirrored their true status as kings, princes, heroes or gods in disguise.

Malachi151

I doubt it will be posted, but its good to keep him on his toes nonetheless

Steven Carr

Your posting was indeed posted. But Dr. Jim West still doesn't want to post my quote of Luke 2:21 where the 8 day old Jesus is apparently called 'not an infant, but a very young child, a toddler.'

And harmonising the birth narrative like this, just makes them more puzzling.

Why were Mary and Joseph not warned not to return to Bethlehem?

Malachi151

LOL, it was only posted for a short time. It is gone now

spin

West is correct when he puts a brefos generally younger than a paidion, but, if we look at Lk 18:15ff, there are people bringing infants (brefh) to Jesus, who says "Let little children (paidia) come to me." Here the Lucan writer uses the terms synonymously.


spin

S.C.Carlson

Interesting example. Could be Lukan fatigue, though.

Stephen