S.C.Carlson

I think so. The letter of Polycrates seems to imply that Melito was ethnically Jewish.

According to Polycrates, Melito was also a eunuch.

Stephen

JoeWallack

Old Yalla:"Now it seems to me that Eusebius has Melito saying that Christianity ["our way of thought..our religion"] "flowered" [began, I assume] IN the reign of Augustus i.e. PRE 14ce..
That's decades before the gospels version-Pilate,Caiaphas etc..Have I mistaken something here?"


JW:
First, let's go to The Lab (and see what's on The Slab):

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/melito.html
(May The Lord bless & keep Peter (Kirby)

Secondly, the offending passages:

"II.

From the apology addressed to Marcus Aurelius Antoninus.61

For the race of the pious is now persecuted in a way contrary to all precedent, being harassed by a new kind of edicts62 everywhere in Asia. For unblushing informers, and such as are greedy of other men's goods, taking occasion from the orders issued, carry on their robbery without any disguise, plundering of their property night and day those who are guilty of no wrong.

If these proceedings take place at thy bidding,63 well and good.64 For a just sovereign will never take unjust measures; and we, on our part, gladly accept the honour of such a death. This request only we present to thee, that thou wouldst first of all examine for thyself into the behaviour of these reputed agents of so much strife, and then come to a just decision as to whether they merit death and punishment, or deserve to live in safety and quiet. But if, on the contrary, it shall turn out that this measure, and this new sort of command, which it would be unbecoming to employ even against barbarian foemen, do not proceed from thee, then all the more do we entreat thee not to leave us thus exposed to the spoliation of the populace.

For the philosophy current with us flourished in the first instance among barbarians;65 and, when it afterwards sprang up among the nations under thy rule, during the distinguished reign of thy ancestor Augustus, it proved to be a blessing of most happy omen to thy empire. For from that time the Roman power has risen to greatness and splendour. To this power thou hast succeeded as the much desired66 possessor; and such shalt thou continue, together with thy son,67 if thou protect that philosophy which has grown up with thy empire, and which took its rise with Augustus; to which also thy more recent ancestors paid honour, along with the other religions prevailing in the empire. A very strong proof, moreover, that it was for good that the system we profess came to prevail at the same time that the empire of such happy commencement was established, is this-that ever since the reign of Augustus nothing untoward has happened; but, on the contrary, everything has contributed to the splendour and renown of the empire, in accordance with the devout wishes68 of all. Nero and Domitian alone of all the emperors, imposed upon by certain calumniators, have cared to bring any impeachment against our doctrines. They, too, are the source from which it has happened that the lying slanders on those who profess them have, in consequence of the senseless habit which prevails of taking things on hearsay, flowed down to our own times.69 But the course which they in their ignorance pursued was set aside by thy pious progenitors, who frequently and in many instances rebuked by their rescripts70 those who dared to set on foot any hostilities against them. It appears, for example, that thy grandfather Adrian wrote, among others, to Fundanus, the proconsul then in charge of the government of Asia. Thy father, too, when thou thyself wast associated with him71 in the administration of the empire, wrote to the cities, forbidding them to take any measures adverse to us: among the rest to the people of Larissa, and of Thessalonica, and of Athens, and, in short, to all the Greeks. And as regards thyself, seeing that thy sentiments respecting the Christians72 are not only the same as theirs, but even much more generous and wise, we are the more persuaded that thou wilt do all that we ask of thee.

III.

From the same apology.73

We are not those who pay homage to stones, that are without sensation; but of the only God, who is before all and over all, and, moreover, we are worshippers of His Christ, who is veritably God the Word74 existing before all time."


JW:
Melito is Christian and never Explicitly identifies Judaism as the subject of the above so I think the default position is that Melito is referring to Christianity without considering Judaism as the predecessor part. Looking at the specifics of some of the phrases, I agree with Old Yalla, that it's Likely that Melito is referring to post Judaism Christianity only:

"For the race of the pious is now persecuted in a way contrary to all precedent" - "race of the pious" is standard Christian code for Christians

"For the philosophy current with us flourished in the first instance among barbarians" - If there's one statement that's a closer here, this is it. This isn't something that would be said from a Jewish standpoint.

"if thou protect that philosophy which has grown up with thy empire," - This also seems to eliminate Judaism as the predecessor.

"to which also thy more recent ancestors paid honour, along with the other religions prevailing in the empire." - More support that only Christianity is meant. After Christianity started Rome distinguished between Judaism and Christianity and only Judaism was recognized as an official religion of the Roman Empire. It would have only been "the more recent ancestors" who would have considered Christianity an official religion.

"A very strong proof, moreover, that it was for good that the system we profess came to prevail at the same time that the empire of such happy commencement was established" - The start of Christianity.

"Nero and Domitian alone of all the emperors, imposed upon by certain calumniators, have cared to bring any impeachment against our doctrines."
- Reference to Christian only persecution.

With the default position and specific phrases supporting post Judaism Christianity only the External evidence would have to be pretty good to make it Likely that Melito was including Judaism in the Passage in question.

Thirdly, in my opinion the External evidence also supports that post Judaism Christianity was meant:

"O Israel, transgressor of the law, why hast thou committed this new iniquity, subjecting the Lord to new sufferings-thine own Lord, Him who fashioned thee, Him-who made thee, Him who honoured thee, who called thee Israel? But thou hast not been found to be Israel:"

Standard Christian demonization and distinction between the White hat Christians and Black hat Jews.

"For there is no need, to persons of intelligence, to attempt to prove, from the deeds of Christ subsequent to His baptism, that His soul and His body, His human nature89 like ours, were real, and no phantom of the imagination. For the deeds done by Christ after His baptism, and especially His miracles, gave indication and assurance to the world of the Deity hidden in His flesh. For, being at once both God and perfect man likewise, He gave us sure indications of His two natures:90 of His Deity, by His miracles during the three years that elapsed after His baptism; of His humanity, during the thirty similar periods which preceded His baptism, in which, by reason of His low estate91 as regards the flesh, He concealed the signs of His Deity, although He was the true God existing before all ages."

Here we have a translation and interpretation issue:

"by His miracles during the three years that elapsed after His baptism; of His humanity, during the thirty similar periods which preceded His baptism"

Does "thirty similar periods" here mean 30 years or 90 years?

The Wace Introduction:

http://www.earlychristianwritings.co...lito-wace.html

takes it to mean that according to Melito Jesus was old:

"Melito speaks of our Lord's three years' ministry after His baptism, which he could not have learned from the Synoptists. He accounts for the fact that a ram, not a lamb, was substituted as a sacrifice for Isaac, by the remark that our Lord, when He suffered, was not young like Isaac, but of mature years. Possibly here may be an indication that Melito held the same theory concerning our Lord's age as Irenaeus and other Asiatics, derived no doubt from John viii. 57."

Irenaeus is further External evidence that Melito meant Christians went back to Augustus. Irenaeus was contemporary to Melito and wrote that Jesus was an old man when crucified (a fact they don't teach in Sonday School). To get the chronology to work Irenaeus places the crucifixion under Claudius (40's). This leads to the Comical result that according to Irenaeus, the most relied upon Church Father, as to what were the official Gospels, Paul was preaching about the significance of Jesus' death while Jesus was still alive! Now that's prophecy! Similarly, if Melito really did think Jesus died when he was old (and he uses a similar Recapitulation argument to Irenaeus) and accepted the crucifixion under Pilate, then he would need to backdate Jesus before Tiberius.



Joseph

DOG, n.
A kind of additional or subsidiary Deity designed to catch the overflow and surplus of the world's worship. This Divine Being in some of his smaller and silkier incarnations takes, in the affection of Woman, the place to which there is no human male aspirant. The Dog is a survival -- an anachronism. He toils not, neither does he spin, yet Solomon in all his glory never lay upon a door-mat all day long, sun-soaked and fly-fed and fat, while his master worked for the means wherewith to purchase the idle wag of the Solomonic tail, seasoned with a look of tolerant recognition.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Errors...yguid=68161660

http://hometown.aol.com/abdulreis/myhomepage/index.html

Notsri

This is differently interpreted by some scholars, though. Alistair Stewart-Sykes thinks "eunuch" is figurative, having reference to Melito as Jew alienated, cut off as it were, from his familial relationships, and devoted with an undivided loyalty to church and Christ. He lays out his argument in a bit more detail, of course, in the Introduction to his very inexpensive translation of Melito's On Pascha

Regards,
Notsri

yalla

JW...does that that mean you think that my suspicions re Melito dating Christianity with a floating JC supports an MJ?
Old Yalla

andrewcriddle

IMO a very free paraphrase of Melito would go something like this

Melito is dating the origin of Christianity to the birth of Jesus during the reign of the good emperor Augustus. This allows his argument to sort of work.

Dating the origin of Christianity to the execution of Jesus by a senior Roman official during the reign of the bad emperor Tiberius would make the argument even more strained than it is in Melito's version.

Andrew Criddle