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10-27-2003, 07:05 PM | #61 | |
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10-27-2003, 07:27 PM | #62 | |||||||
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10-27-2003, 08:08 PM | #63 | |
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Let's assume you are right and that Jesus actually said every single thing attributed to him in the four gospels. How could three people somehow come up with roughly the same quotes, while a fourth came up with entirely different quotes? Weren't the other three listening when he was saying them? Didn't Matthew, Mark or Luke find any of Jesus' famous "I am" speeches important enough to include in their accounts? What about John 3:16? What about "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but my me"? In fact, MOST OF JESUS' most important quotes show up in John's gospel and not the others. I think that should give any reasonably thoughtful person pause. |
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10-27-2003, 08:19 PM | #64 |
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Here are just some of the quotes that appear only in John:
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God." "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 3.16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. < 4.13 Jesus said to her, "Every one who drinks of this water will thirst again, 4.14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst; the water that I shall give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life." 4.24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth." 5.24 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. 6.35 Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to me shall not hunger, and he who believes in me shall never thirst. 6.40 For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." 6.47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. 6.48 I am the bread of life. 6.51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh." 6:53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 6.54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 8.12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world; he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." 8.31 Jesus then said to the Jews who had believed in him, "If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples, 8.32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." 8.58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." 10.9 I am the door; if any one enters by me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. 14.6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me. 15.5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. |
10-27-2003, 08:20 PM | #65 | |
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10-27-2003, 08:27 PM | #66 | |
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Eyewitness one: the toyota ran the red light and hit car.. Eyewitness two: a fighter jet came swooping down from the sky launching missiles at the car... These errors are anything but the vaguaries of memory. Vinnie |
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10-27-2003, 08:28 PM | #67 | |
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10-27-2003, 08:39 PM | #68 | |
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10-27-2003, 08:50 PM | #69 | |
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So did Matthew, Mark and Luke independently sit down and decide each would only discuss "Jesus' life and ministry"? How believable is that? If YOU had heard Jesus utter those amazing statements in John, would YOU have failed to include them - regardless of the "purpose" of your account? No, I'm afraid the most rational explanation is that John made up what He felt Jesus would or should have said, to fit his own personal theology - indicating that the gospels are basically well crafted works of theology and not historical accounts of anything. |
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10-27-2003, 09:05 PM | #70 | |
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Another analogy sometimes used by apologists is comparing the resurrection contradictions to differing accounts given by witnesses of an auto accident. If one witness said the vehicle was green and the other said it was blue, that could be accounted for by different angles, lighting, perception, or definitions of words. The important thing, they claim, is that they do agree on the basic story--there was an accident, there was a resurrection. I am not a fundamentalist inerrantist. I'm not demanding that the evangelists must have been expert, infallible witnesses. (None of them claims to have been at the tomb itself, anyway.) But what if one person said the auto accident happened in Chicago and the other said it happened in Milwaukee? At least one of these witnesses has serious problems with the truth. Luke says the post-resurrection appearance happened in Jerusalem, but Matthew says it happened in Galilee, sixty to one hundred miles away! http://www.ffrf.org/lfif/stone.html [/smackdown] Damn Magus - I'm still waiting for something original from you. Have you been using these same, utterly worthless arguments the entire time you've been here? Hey, since we're on the topic of bible verses, can you tell me the difference between 2 Kings 19 and Isaiah 37? I keep getting this weird, Deja vu feeling every time I read one or the other... |
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