Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 05-03-2010, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

Aren't the creationists the *victims* of this story, rather than its perpetrators? Wasn't this a scam set up by some Kurds?

Wouldn't it be just like the Turks to blame the Kurds? :Cheeky:

In 1993, a few Southern Californians staged a hoax to demonstrate the shoddy research standards of a group trying to find the ark. I don't think these Kurds had such high motives, but I imagine that the gullibility of evangelical arkeologists just creates an irresistable opportunity for the suppliers of archaeological fakes.

Christian Archaeologist gives insider's look

Quote:

Dr. Randall Price, however, says he was informed by a local partner in the village at the foot of Mount Ararat that ten Kurdish workers were hired by the expedition team’s guide in the late summer of 2008 to transport and plant large wood beams from an old structure in the Black Sea area at the Mount Ararat site.

That same guide had showed the team a cave in 2006 that was thought to contain wood but, upon inspection by Price and a team of geologists, actually contained volcanic rock.

...

“During that expedition, the guide … who claimed to have found the Ark, was constantly drunk and after one month sitting in a hotel waiting, the expedition never happened,” he informed ministry supporters.

Though many have concluded from Price’s leaked e-mail that the Christian archaeologist believes the Kurdish guide and his partners were merely extorting money from the Chinese evangelical Christians belonging to NAMI, the ministry leader stopped short of affirming the conclusion, saying only that he believes that the greater the claim, the greater the evidence needs to be to support it.

Toto · 05-03-2010, 01:12 PM

Time magazine

Quote:

The team has conducted missions to Mount Ararat since 2003 under the auspices of a Hong Kong–based organization dubbed Noah's Ark Ministries International, which is in turn linked with another well-funded Christian group in the city called Media Evangelism. The latter drew attention in 2008 when it helped set up a park that now houses a life-size replica of the ark, accompanied by models of animals on board as well as a vivid film depicting God's wrath at a sinful mankind and the flood he sent to wash it away. Yeung talks of the ark's discovery in almost apocalyptic terms: "At this day, at this moment, it has a very special meaning when we see so many natural disasters and earthquakes," he tells TIME. "People should come and see the ark and think about their place in the world."

Not surprisingly, there are skeptics. ....

...

Archaeologists on blogs and forums have suggested the structure up on Mount Ararat may well just be a hut or some other form of rudimentary shelter. Cline also wonders why the ark over time would have been left intact at all. Indeed, according to the 1st century A.D. Jewish-Roman historian Flavius Josephus, the ship was already being torn down. "It is said," he wrote, "that a portion of the vessel still survives ... on the mountains ... and that persons carry off pieces of [it], which they use as talismans."

Nevertheless, Yeung and his colleagues are pressing ahead, hoping to gain the support of UNESCO and spend the next few years deepening their analysis of the site. Cline says this sort of work strays from the real purpose of biblical archaeology, which is to bring to light the greater social realities of that ancient time, rather than prove the truth of Christian doctrine with quests for biblical totems.

Minimalist · 05-03-2010, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

Aren't the creationists the *victims* of this story, rather than its perpetrators? Wasn't this a scam set up by some Kurds?

There are victims and then there are willing victims.

Toto · 05-10-2010, 01:03 PM

The drama continues.

Robert Cargill's blog

This is mind boggling. You might have to read it several times, and follow the links in the original, to absorb it all.

Quote:

. . . perhaps the most telling video released by the media evangelism, ltd. is one entitled do we believe in the noah’s ark or the god behind it?

in the video the speaker explicitly states that he became a christian after a previous bogus ark discovery claim (at the 3:50 mark). he goes on to state that whether or not nami‘s claim is verified in the end, as long as people come to jesus, it is worthwhile (view from the 4:25 mark). watch the video. in fact at the 5:13 mark, the speaker amazingly states:

Therefore as mature Christians, we should be accurate in speaking. When we talk about it from news or scientific aspects, we are just making use of it. The thing itself is not the truth. It is prone to change. Even today when i say that this is 90% sure to be the Ark, assume that one day the 10% rest showed that it is not to be the Ark, even then I don’t think it matters. Because what people believe is not only Noah’s Ark itself, they should believe the God who worked behind Noah’s Ark.

the speaker goes on to compare this find to the claims made about the shroud of turin, which he says broght many people to believe in jesus, even though it was later shown to be a fake. what matters to the speaker is that people believe in jesus, not whether or not the ark they claim to have found is real

The video in question is here (Chinese language with English subtitles.)

show_no_mercy · 05-10-2010, 01:12 PM

Quote:

. . . perhaps the most telling video released by the media evangelism, ltd. is one entitled do we believe in the noah’s ark or the god behind it?

in the video the speaker explicitly states that he became a christian after a previous bogus ark discovery claim (at the 3:50 mark). he goes on to state that whether or not nami‘s claim is verified in the end, as long as people come to jesus, it is worthwhile (view from the 4:25 mark). watch the video. in fact at the 5:13 mark, the speaker amazingly states:

Therefore as mature Christians, we should be accurate in speaking. When we talk about it from news or scientific aspects, we are just making use of it. The thing itself is not the truth. It is prone to change. Even today when i say that this is 90% sure to be the Ark, assume that one day the 10% rest showed that it is not to be the Ark, even then I don’t think it matters. Because what people believe is not only Noah’s Ark itself, they should believe the God who worked behind Noah’s Ark.

the speaker goes on to compare this find to the claims made about the shroud of turin, which he says broght many people to believe in jesus, even though it was later shown to be a fake. what matters to the speaker is that people believe in jesus, not whether or not the ark they claim to have found is real

Valuing faith over honesty will inevitably make people see dishonesty as a virtue.

Or in other words, lying for Jesus. No matter; Christians have been lying for Jesus since Matt 1:22-23.

Toto · 05-20-2010, 11:24 AM

10 Problems with Mount Ararat Noah's Ark 'Discovery'

Quote:

At the same time the team released a computer-generated image of the site, right, American Biblical historian Randall Price has already refuted the team's claims, stating he went to the ark's purported location and saw nothing. Price has since been met with Orwellian media backlash on NIMA's website, but another leading expert has added his concerns to the debate.

Dutch Biblical expert M.J. Paul has serious reservations about the 'discovery', which so far has only comprised sketchy videos and interviews with NIMA. And in true Biblical style he has issued a list of ten points he wants cleared up before he believes its veracity, in an interview with Reformatorisch Dagblad (translated) ...

At the end of the article, there is a link to the top 10 archaeological hoaxes.

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