Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Demophon · 07-11-2010, 01:36 PM

This is something I did like 5 years ago. Just notes that I wrote down when I was reviewing astrology within the bible.
If there are errors or wish to add to this, feel free to comment.

King James Version used unless noted.

Twelve zodiac signs are used in Greek, Chinese and Indonesia.
Three zodiac signs are told in the bible and the forth is foretold.

The Precession of the Equinoxes is as follows:
Taurus: Bull, bullock or calf or possibly an oxen.
Aries: Lamb, sheep or ram.
Pisces: Two Fish
Aquarius: "Water bearer"

No bible reference but Jesus was born at the end of the Aries age (lamb) and lived into the Pisces age (fish).

Genesis 1:14
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and year.

Signs of the Zodiac, seasons, and what years are measured by.

Exodus 32:4
And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

Moses was the end of the Taurus age with the worship of the golden calf.

Exodus 32:20
And he took the calf which they had made, and burnt it in the fire, and ground it to powder, and strawed it upon the water, and made the children of Israel drink of it.

The destruction of the calf represents the end of the Taurus age and into the Aries age. Hebrews to this day still use a rams horn called the shofar.

Numbers 23:1
And Balaam said unto Balak, Build me here seven altars, and prepare me here seven oxen and seven rams.
Numbers 23:4
And God met Balaam: and he said unto him, I have prepared seven altars, and I have offered upon every altar a bullock and a ram.
Numbers 23:14
And he brought him into the field of Zophim, to the top of Pisgah, and built seven altars, and offered a bullock and a ram on every altar.
Numbers 23:29
And Balaam said unto Balak, Build me here seven altars, and prepare me here seven bullocks and seven rams.

Seven can mean the seven heavenly bodies known at the time, namely the sun and the moon, as well as Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn.
As noted, Taurus is stated first and then Aries last. Like the Precession of the Equinoxes.

Deuteronomy 4:19
And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:40-41
40. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

Job 3:9
May its morning stars become dark; may it wait for daylight in vain and not see the first rays of dawn

Morning Star is in reference to Venus. Also known as the Evening Star.
There are many references to the morning star.

Job 9:9
Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.

Arcturus is the brightest star in the constellation Boötes. It is also Greek mythology.
Orion is a constellation. It is also Greek mythology.
Pleiades is a star cluster. It is also Greek mythology.
Chambers may represent a star cluster.

Job 38:32
Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?

Mazzaroth in Hebrew means “The Constellations of the Zodiac”.

Luke 21:25
And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring

No explanation needed.

Matthew 6:6
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

The 12th House (Pisces) is associated with secrets, seclusion and reclusion.

Matthew 10:1
And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

The 12th House (Pisces).
Is that where the 12 disciples are conjured from? You be the judge.
There are 164 references to the number 12 in the King James Version.

Revelation 22:16
“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

Venus

Revelation 1:20
The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Seven seems to be a magical mystery number. It can have a lot of meanings.

Seven stars can be a reference to the Pleiades star cluster.
And that is tied to Pleiades, the seven sisters in Greek mythology.

Seven can mean the seven heavenly bodies known at the time, namely the sun and the moon, as well as Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn.

The seven candlesticks could mean the Menorah. A Jewish branched candelabrum.

The seven churches are cities within Turkey. Which is now 99.8% Muslim.

There are 562 references to the number 7 in the King James Version.

Matthew 4:18
And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.

Matthew 14:17
And they say unto him, We have here but five loaves, and two fishes.

Matthew 14:19
And he commanded the multitude to sit down on the grass, and took the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed, and brake, and gave the loaves to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.

Mark 6:38
He saith unto them, How many loaves have ye? go and see. And when they knew, they say, Five and two fishes.

Mark 6:41
And when he had taken the five loaves and the two fishes, he looked up to heaven, and blessed, and brake the loaves, and gave them to his disciples to set before them; and the two fishes divided he among them all.

Luke 5:2
And saw two ships standing by the lake: but the fishermen were gone out of them, and were washing their nets.

Luke 9:13
But he said unto them, Give ye them to eat. And they said, We have no more but five loaves and two fishes; except we should go and buy meat for all this people.

Luke 9:16
Then he took the five loaves and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed them, and brake, and gave to the disciples to set before the multitude.

John 6:9
There is a lad here, which hath five barley loaves, and two small fishes: but what are they among so many?

John 21:8
And the other disciples came in a little ship; (for they were not far from land, but as it were two hundred cubits,) dragging the net with fishes.

Two Fish? Sounds like Pisces to me. Symbols of Jesus (Christianity) are lamb (Aries) and fish (Pisces). And isn’t it strange that Pisces (astrology), Solar (March 12 - April 18) and Easter are together as well? Easter is within the Spring Equinox, after the winter where life is reborn (resurrected).

The mentioning of the Ages -

Matthew 28:20
teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age

Meaning Pisces is with us till the end of this age.

Mark 14:13 & Luke 22:10
And Jesus said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.

Meaning the man bearing a pitcher of water is in reference to Aquarius (The Water bearer). The next age. We're currently at the end in Pisces (Two Fish). House is another term used in astrology. Like in the 12th House (Pisces).

Darkness and Light –

1 Kings 8:12 and 2 Chronicles 6:1
Then said Solomon, The LORD hath said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.

Darkness so thick that the sun was covered. Basically it is nighttime or a solar eclipse.

Psalm 18:11
He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.

Psalm 97:2
Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne.

1 Timothy 6:15
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Matthew 17:2
And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Miscellaneous -

Deus Sol Invictus ("the Unconquered Sun God")

Sirius (East Star)
Orion's Belt = Three Kings

East Star and the Three Kings align with "the sun" on December 25th known as the Sol Invictus or "the birth of the sun".

The constellation Virgo means virgin. The sign of Virgo is an inverted M. Hence the “Virgin Mary”. As in other virgin mothers like Myrra and Maya.

Virgo also means, "house of bread". Bethlehem in Hebrew is translated to "house of bread". The most prominent star in Virgo is Spica (α Vir), which was sometimes considered to represent an ear of wheat in Virgo's hand.

He was born, the Bible says, of a Virgin, the Virgo being the opposite sign of Pisces. Let us also point out that the sign of Virgo is also associated with the wheat head, immaculately white. Indeed, Christ nourished the multitude of people who followed Him with fish and bread.

Ancient people with astronomical knowledge knew that the Vernal Equinox shifts into the next Zodiac sign (constellation) every 2150 years, and the passing of every age was celebrated. It is said that the birth of Moses is the biblical translation for the end of the age of the worship of Taurus the bull (false idols) into Aries, and the birth of Jesus is the translation of the shift from Aries to Pisces-the fish. Researchers state that the three kings and the star above Jesus' birth place were the Three Kings Stars from Orion's belt that align with the star Sirius when the December 25 Equinox shifts into Pisces. Thus Jesus represents the sun, and his most important dates are the Christmas equinox and the Easter equinox. Some people even say that Jesus was created as a earthly person when the holy Roman Bible was written in 300AD in their translation of the Astrological Scriptures.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox...cts_and_fables

The Exaltation (astrology) planet for Pisces is Venus. The planet of love. Which the “sun” told us to do. Love thy neighbor and stuff.

There is either a solstice (summer and winter) or an equinox (autumn and spring) on approximately the 21st day of the last month of every quarter of the calendar year. Christmas and Easter.

Therefore, I conclude that Christians are actually sun worshipers.
Not “son” of God worshipers as they believe.

mountainman · 07-11-2010, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demophon

...[trimmed]...

Deus Sol Invictus ("the Unconquered Sun God")

...

Ancient people with astronomical knowledge knew that the Vernal Equinox shifts into the next Zodiac sign (constellation) every 2150 years, and the passing of every age was celebrated. It is said that the birth of Moses is the biblical translation for the end of the age of the worship of Taurus the bull (false idols) into Aries, and the birth of Jesus is the translation of the shift from Aries to Pisces-the fish. Researchers state that the three kings and the star above Jesus' birth place were the Three Kings Stars from Orion's belt that align with the star Sirius when the December 25 Equinox shifts into Pisces. Thus Jesus represents the sun, and his most important dates are the Christmas equinox and the Easter equinox.

Some people even say that Jesus was created as a earthly person when the holy Roman Bible was written in 300AD in their translation of the Astrological Scriptures.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox...cts_and_fables

You may be interested in this article: Constantine and the Zero Ayanamsa estimates

Quote:

Introduction

Known to western astronomers and astrologers as the precession of the equinoxes, and to the Indian astronomers and astrologers, as ayanamsa, it was apparent to the ancients that the sky and the seasons did not perfectly align, but that the vernal equinox appeared to slowly drift backwards through the natural background of the stars of the zodiac, at the approximate rate of 1 degree every 72 years.

Knowledge of this precession is evident in the lineage of the astronomers/astrologers who provided advice to the Roman emperors, and other parties. Sosigenes advised Julius Caesar at the time of calendar reform in the first century BCE, when the basis of our present 365.25 day calendar was implemented. Two hundred years before this time, Aristarchus is generally cited as the earliest astronomer/astrologer to have mentioned the drifting of the seasons with respect to the background stars. Two hundred years after the time of the calendar reform, the geographer, mathematician and astronomer Ptolemy is known to have written of this movement. Thus, one would have expected that by the fourth century, this knowledge would have been revered.

However it is clear that the "early christian intellectuals" such as Origen (whom elsewhere we explicate to be a non-de-plume for the fourth century historian Eusebius) thought otherwise. Eusebius reports that Origen, in his Commentary on Genesis, says:

"The consequence of this doctrine would be to annihilate completely our freedom of action, which, in this system, would no longer be worthy of either praise or blame, nor of being encouraged or reproved. If it is so, everything one lets resound about God's judgment is senseless (...) faith would be in vain, the coming of Jesus Christ to earth would have accomplished nothing, all the value of the law and the prophets would become worthless (...) A further effect of this atheistic and impious discourse would be to assign the faith of those acknowledged as believers in God as a result only of the power of the stars."
--- Eusebius Pamphilus (PE 6.2)

Constantine's ill-informed Law of 325 CE

It would certainly seem probable that Constantine rejected the advice of non-christian astrologers when he decided to chain "Easter" to the Vernal equinox at the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE. Not a good thing. This had totally disasterous effects for the entire concept of "astrology" and "astronomy". As one commentator puts it ....

Sosigenes was, undoubtedly, aware of precession as were the early fathers of the Church. Precession was known around 200 AD (See, Origen, early Christian scholar and theologian) but denied by the early fathers of the Christian church. One reason for the denial of precession is because 'precession' suggested a Sun Centered solar system which was considered heresy (See, Galileo). Sosigenes secretly, (it seems) included precession in his calculations but did not discuss the matter. Anyhow, they (Council of Nicaea) changed the Vernal Equinox rather than disrupting the evolving church doctrine. This act of changing the Vernal Equinox also changed the zodiac because the resulting 4-day change (rather than admit to precession and heresy) shifted the place of 1° Aries by 4 degrees on top of any original zodiac errors (?) from The Julian Reform in 46 BC. This event was also the beginning of the end for astrology as a legitmate activity (religion) because 'astrology' then went from the actual positions of heavenly bodies to the tropical fiction of the calendar, not to metion the continually scrambled zodiac because of calendar changes.

From this time epoch the sideral zodiac and the tropical zodiac have slowly diverged by the rate of the precession or ayanamsa. Today, if you follow popular astrology, you will be disappointed that your entire chart needs to be rotated 24.5 degrees backwards, due to the accumulated divergence between these two zodiacs, essentially from the epoch around the Council of Nicaea.

The most popular sidereal zodiacs today are within one degree of each other. Each of these therfore offers a separate estimate for the "zero ayanamsa" date. That is "How long have these two zodiacs been drifting apart?" These estimates are as follows ...

221 CE (Fagan-Bradley)
291 CE (Krishnamurti)
285 CE (Lahiri ayanamsa)

For anyone reading this, and thinking this is not science and/or astronomy, think again. Our calendar does not take into account precession agaist the stars. All our calendar represents is an invention by which the vernal equinox is constrained to coincide with a regularity within a certain tolerance.

Toto · 07-11-2010, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demophon

...

Ancient people with astronomical knowledge knew that the Vernal Equinox shifts into the next Zodiac sign (constellation) every 2150 years, and the passing of every age was celebrated. It is said that the birth of Moses is the biblical translation for the end of the age of the worship of Taurus the bull (false idols) into Aries, and the birth of Jesus is the translation of the shift from Aries to Pisces-the fish. Researchers state that the three kings and the star above Jesus' birth place were the Three Kings Stars from Orion's belt that align with the star Sirius when the December 25 Equinox shifts into Pisces. Thus Jesus represents the sun, and his most important dates are the Christmas equinox and the Easter equinox. Some people even say that Jesus was created as a earthly person when the holy Roman Bible was written in 300AD in their translation of the Astrological Scriptures.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox...cts_and_fables

...

The paragraph that you cited was removed from the wikipedia entry.

The discussion page notes:

Quote:

I recognize the content as part of the documentary film Zeitgeist II, but that's not the point. I think the paragraph should be removed for being unverifiable. . . .

It's not clear who these "some people" are, or what Astrological Scriptures they rely on. It is clear that there is no Christmas equinox (it's the solstice.)

mountainman · 07-11-2010, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Some people even say that Jesus was created as a earthly person when the holy Roman Bible was written in 300AD in their translation of the Astrological Scriptures..

The paragraph that you cited was removed from the wikipedia entry.

It's not clear who these "some people" are, or what Astrological Scriptures they rely on.

these "some people" may well be the Gnostics. Think neopythagorean or neoplatonist etc.

For example, without mentioning Arius, at Nag Hammadi ...

Quote:

Our generation is fleeing since it does not yet even believe that the Christ is alive … he was nailed so that they might keep him in the Church. [NHC 11.1]

Toto · 07-11-2010, 08:52 PM

I don't think so. The gnostic Christians predated Constantine by most people's reckoning. Their Jesus was a spiritual entity.

mountainman · 07-12-2010, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

I don't think so. The gnostic Christians predated Constantine by most people's reckoning.

This is misinformation toto. The Gnostics according to the best mainstream estimates appear to have written across a number of centuries, see the following tabulation. While it is conjectured that some wrote "Early" it is undisputed that some wrote during the 4th century and/or afterwards. See the list of texts after Nicaea - specifically section (b), perhaps also (c) and (d).

NT Apocryphal Corpus by (Mainstream) Chronology

(a) texts conjectured to have been authored before Nicaea

The Teaching of the Apostles 1st?
The Didache [Teaching/Doctrine of the Apostles] 1st?
The Gospel of the Egyptians 1st-2nd
The Gospel of Peter 1st-2nd
The Gospel of the Hebrews 1st-2nd
The Gospel of Thomas 1st-2nd
The Gospel of the Lord [by Marcion] 2nd
The Infancy Gospel of Thomas [Greek Text A] 2nd
The Gospel of Judas 2nd
The Gospel of Mary [Magdalene] 2nd
The Epistle of the Apostles 2nd
The Gospel of James (Infancy) 2nd
The Gospel of the Ebionites 2nd
The Gospel of the Nazoreans 2nd
The Acts of Andrew and John (*H) 2nd-3rd
The Gospel of Philip 2nd-3rd
The Letter of Peter to Philip 2nd-3rd
The Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles 2nd-3rd
The Acts of Peter 2nd-3rd
The Acts of Paul (*R) 2nd-3rd
The Acts of Peter and Andrew 2nd-3rd
The Acts of Andrew and Matthew (*H) 2nd-3rd
The Acts of Andrew (*H) 2nd-3rd
The Acts of John (*H) 2nd-3rd
The Acts of Paul and Thecla 2nd-3rd
The Acts of Thomas 3rd
The Pistis Sophia - Excerpts 3rd

================================================== ========
THE COUNCILS OF ANTIOCH AND NICAEA 325 CE
================================================== ========

(b) texts conjectured to have been authored after Nicaea

The Acts of John the Theologian 3rd-4th
The Acts of the Martyrs 4th
The Death of Pilate 4th
The History of Joseph the Carpenter 4th
The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew 4th
The Gospel of Nicodemus 4th
The Gospel of the Nativity of Mary 4th
The Correspondence of Paul and Seneca 4th
The Correspondence of Jesus and Abgar 4th
The Acts of Polyeuctes 4th
The Gospel of Gamaliel 4th
The Gospel of the Twelve Apostles 4th
The Acts of Pilate 4th
The Acts of Xanthippe, Polyxena, and Rebecca 4th
The Acts of Thaddaeus 4th-5th
The Acts of Peter and Paul 4th-5th
The Gospel of Bartholomew 4th-5th
The Acts of Philip 4th-5th
The Acts of Simon and Jude 4th-5th
The Acts of Luke 4th-5th
The History of John 4th-5th
The Acts of Mark 4th-5th
The Act of Peter 4th-5th
The Acts of Bartholomew 5th
An Arabic Infancy Gospel 5th
The Gospel of Thomas - A 5th Century Compilation 5th
The Acts of Barnabas 5th
The Acts and Martyrdom of Andrew 5th
The Acts and Martyrdom of Matthew 5th
The Acts of Timothy 5th
The Acts of Titus 5th
The Acts of Matthew 6th
The Secret Gospel of Mark Twentie

(c) texts not yet dated -- probably late as well ....

The Apocryphon of James Unknown
The Apocryphon of John Unknown
The Revelation of Peter Unknown
The Report of Pilate to Tiberius Unknown
The Martyrdom of Matthew Unknown
The Mystery of the Cross-Excerpt from the Acts of Unknown
The Passing of Mary Unknown
The Apocalypse of Adam Unknown
The Apocalypse of James - First Unknown
The Apocalypse of James - Second Unknown
The Apocalypse of Paul - and fragments Unknown
The Apocalypse of Peter - and fragments (*R) Unknown
The Revelation of Esdras Unknown
The Revelation of John the Theologian Unknown
The Revelation of Moses Unknown
The Revelation of Paul Unknown
The Vision of Paul Unknown
Community Rule Unknown
John the Evangelist Unknown
The Book of John Concerning the Death of Mary Unknown
The Book of Thomas the Contender Unknown
The Consummation of Thomas Unknown
The Giving Up of Pontius Pilate Unknown
The Avenging of the Saviour Unknown
The Epistle to the Laodiceans Unknown
The Report of Pilate to the emperor Claudius Unknown
The Teachings of Addeus the Apostle Unknown
The Three Steles of Seth Unknown
The Book of Thomas the Contender Unknown
The Narrative of Joseph of Arimathaea Unknown
The Prayer of the Apostle Paul Unknown
The Sophia of Jesus Christ Unknown

(d) texts of the Nag Hammadi codices ... mixed bag or some late ones?

The Gospel of Truth NHC
The Gospel of Thomas NHC
The Prayer of Thanksgiving NHC
The Gospel of Truth NHC
The Treatise on the Resurrection NHC
Trimorphic Protennoia NHC
The Prayer of the Apostle Paul NHC
The Apocryphon of James NHC
The Prayer of the Apostle Paul NHC
The Hypostasis of the Archons NHC
On the Origin of the World NHC
The Book of Thomas the Contender NHC
The Apocryphon of John NHC
The Gospel of the Egyptians NHC
Eugnostos the Blessed NHC
The Sophia of Jesus Christ NHC
The Dialogue of the Savior NHC
The Apocryphon of John NHC
The Gospel of the Egyptians NHC
Eugnostos the Blessed NHC
The Apocalypse of Paul NHC
The Apocalypse of James (First) NHC
The Apocalypse of James (Second) NHC
The Apocalypse of Adam NHC
The Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles NHC
The Thunder, Perfect Mind NHC
Authoritative Teaching NHC
The Concept of Our Great Power NHC
Plato, Republic 588A-589B NHC
The Discourse on the Eighth and Ninth NHC
Asclepius 21-29 NHC
The Paraphrase of Shem NHC
The Second Treatise of the Great Seth NHC
The Apocalypse of Peter NHC
The Teachings of Silvanus NHC
The Three Steles of Seth NHC
Zostrianos NHC
The Letter of Peter to Philip NHC
Melchizedek NHC
The Thought of Norea NHC
The Testimony of Truth NHC
Marsanes NHC
The Interpretation of Knowledge NHC
A Valentinian Exposition NHC
Allogenes NHC
Hypsiphrone NHC
The Sentences of Sextus NHC
Unknown NHC
On the Origin of the World NHC
The Tripartite Tractate NHC
The Gospel of Philip NHC
The Exegesis on the Soul NHC

(144 row(s) affected)

(There may be a few duplicates.
Especiall the NHC stuff)

Quote:

Their Jesus was a spiritual entity.

Their Jesus was a docetic phantom who was insubstantial
and did not leave footprints in the sand. Their Jesus was
a monstrous fable, as the shocked and horrified Photius reports:

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHOTIUS

The author asserts that
the God of the Jews, whom he calls evil, whose servant Simon Magus was, is one God,
and Christ, whom he calls good, another. Mingling and confounding all together,
he calls the same both Father and Son. He asserts that He never was really made man,
but only in appearance; that He appeared at different times in different form
to His disciples, now as a young, now as an old man, and then again as a boy,
now taller, now shorter, now very tall, so that His head reached nearly to heaven.

He also invents much idle and absurd nonsense about the Cross, saying that Christ
was not crucified, but some one in His stead, and that therefore He could laugh
at those who imagined they had crucified Him. He declares lawful marriages to be
illegal and that all procreation of children is evil and the work of the evil one.

He talks foolishly about the creator of demons. He tells monstrous tales of silly
and childish resurrections of dead men and oxen and cattle. In the Acts of St. John
he seems to support the opponents of images in attacking their use.

In a word, the book contains a vast amount of

childish,
incredible,
ill-devised,
lying,
silly,
self-contradictory,
impious, and
ungodly statements,

so that one would not be far wrong in calling
it the source and mother of all heresy.

Toto · 07-12-2010, 01:03 AM

There were Gnostics before Constantine, even if some gnostic texts post-date Nicaea.

Which of these gnostics believed that the holy Roman Bible was written in 300AD by translating the Astrological Scriptures?

mountainman · 07-12-2010, 02:26 AM

The OP questions and comments were prefaced with the following ...

Quote:

This is something I did like 5 years ago. Just notes that I wrote down when I was reviewing astrology within the bible.
If there are errors or wish to add to this, feel free to comment.

I am not sure where the OP was leading.
He may even update the 300 AD to 325 CE

The fact of the matter remains that the christians saw negative merit in astrology and astronomy.
At the time of the Council of Nicaea, when Jesus was put in charge, the knowledge of the
precession of the equinoxes was effectively lost from the Graeco-Roman civilisation.
The "Astrological Scriptures" I am taking as meaning treatises on astronomy, etc.
Lots of knowledge was preserved in Greek prior to the 4th century Nicaean boundary event.

semiopen · 07-12-2010, 08:40 AM

Regarding Astrology, I'm currently looking at Medieval Jewish Philosphy.

Jewish "scientists" were almost always rabbis.

Aside from medicine they were noted for astronomy and astrology. This includes

Gersonides.

Quote:

Gersonides believed that astrology was real, and developed a naturalistic, non-supernatural explanation of how it works. Julius Guttman explained that for Gersonides, astrology was:

founded on the metaphysical doctrine of the dependence of all earthly occurrences upon the heavenly world. The general connection imparted to the prophet by the active intellect is the general order of the astrological constellation. The constellation under which a man is born determines his nature and fate, and constellations as well determine the life span of nations. …The active intellect knows the astrological order, from the most general form of the constellations to their last specification, which in turn contains all of the conditions of occurrence of a particular event. Thus, when a prophet deals with the destiny of a particular person or human group, he receives from the active intellect a knowledge of the order of the constellations, and with sufficient precision to enable him to predict its fate in full detail. …This astrological determinism has only one limitation. The free will of man could shatter the course of action ordained for him by the stars; prophecy could therefore predict the future on the basis of astrological determination only insofar as the free will of man does not break through the determined course of things.[10]

Current Ultra Orthodox Jews consider the medieval "scientists" to be essentially better than those who lived after the enlightenment. These rabbis are given special status where their views cannot be directly challenged. I was discussing astrology with an Ultra Orthodox rabbi the other day and was surprised when he thought this was a legitimate area of scientific work.

mountainman · 07-12-2010, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semiopen

Regarding Astrology, I'm currently looking at Medieval Jewish Philosphy.

Jewish "scientists" were almost always rabbis.

Aside from medicine they were noted for astronomy and astrology. This includes

Gersonides.

Quote:

Gersonides believed that astrology was real, and developed a naturalistic, non-supernatural explanation of how it works. Julius Guttman explained that for Gersonides, astrology was:

founded on the metaphysical doctrine of the dependence of all earthly occurrences upon the heavenly world. The general connection imparted to the prophet by the active intellect is the general order of the astrological constellation. The constellation under which a man is born determines his nature and fate, and constellations as well determine the life span of nations. …The active intellect knows the astrological order, from the most general form of the constellations to their last specification, which in turn contains all of the conditions of occurrence of a particular event. Thus, when a prophet deals with the destiny of a particular person or human group, he receives from the active intellect a knowledge of the order of the constellations, and with sufficient precision to enable him to predict its fate in full detail. …This astrological determinism has only one limitation. The free will of man could shatter the course of action ordained for him by the stars; prophecy could therefore predict the future on the basis of astrological determination only insofar as the free will of man does not break through the determined course of things.[10]

Current Ultra Orthodox Jews consider the medieval "scientists" to be essentially better than those who lived after the enlightenment. These rabbis are given special status where their views cannot be directly challenged. I was discussing astrology with an Ultra Orthodox rabbi the other day and was surprised when he thought this was a legitimate area of scientific work.

You may know that in the planet's astrological models there are two major forms of "Zodiacs" -- one called the sidereal (following the stars and allowing for precession of the equinoxes) and one called usually the tropical or sometimes solar (this one dominates the calculations behind the astrological columns in the newpapers of the west).

I was wondering which one the Jewish astronomers/astrologers used, and in fact whether there were any Jewish astronomers/astrologers during the epoch say between 500 BCE and 500 CE. They may have used the zodiac employed by the Babylonians. This may have been sidereal, following the Indians, who largely follow the sideral zodiac.

Then at some stage, influenced by Hellenisation, the Graeco-Roman zodiac may have been employed, which as far as I can perceive, was also one which had the precession of the equinoxes built in, and was thus sidereal.

The history of the non sidereal, or tropical zodiac, appears to have commenced in the 4th century ---- as a result of decisions made at the Council of Nicaea. My notes on this matter of the divergence of the Tropical and Sidereal Zodiacs

07-11-2010, 01:36 PM	#1
Demophon Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 229	Astrology and the Bible This is something I did like 5 years ago. Just notes that I wrote down when I was reviewing astrology within the bible. If there are errors or wish to add to this, feel free to comment. King James Version used unless noted. Twelve zodiac signs are used in Greek, Chinese and Indonesia. Three zodiac signs are told in the bible and the forth is foretold. The Precession of the Equinoxes is as follows: Taurus: Bull, bullock or calf or possibly an oxen. Aries: Lamb, sheep or ram. Pisces: Two Fish Aquarius: "Water bearer" No bible reference but Jesus was born at the end of the Aries age (lamb) and lived into the Pisces age (fish). Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and year. Signs of the Zodiac, seasons, and what years are measured by. Exodus 32:4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. Moses was the end of the Taurus age with the worship of the golden calf. Exodus 32:20 And he took the calf which they had made, and burnt it in the fire, and ground it to powder, and strawed it upon the water, and made the children of Israel drink of it. The destruction of the calf represents the end of the Taurus age and into the Aries age. Hebrews to this day still use a rams horn called the shofar. Numbers 23:1 And Balaam said unto Balak, Build me here seven altars, and prepare me here seven oxen and seven rams. Numbers 23:4 And God met Balaam: and he said unto him, I have prepared seven altars, and I have offered upon every altar a bullock and a ram. Numbers 23:14 And he brought him into the field of Zophim, to the top of Pisgah, and built seven altars, and offered a bullock and a ram on every altar. Numbers 23:29 And Balaam said unto Balak, Build me here seven altars, and prepare me here seven bullocks and seven rams. Seven can mean the seven heavenly bodies known at the time, namely the sun and the moon, as well as Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. As noted, Taurus is stated first and then Aries last. Like the Precession of the Equinoxes. Deuteronomy 4:19 And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven. 1 Corinthians 15:40-41 40. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. Job 3:9 May its morning stars become dark; may it wait for daylight in vain and not see the first rays of dawn Morning Star is in reference to Venus. Also known as the Evening Star. There are many references to the morning star. Job 9:9 Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south. Arcturus is the brightest star in the constellation Boötes. It is also Greek mythology. Orion is a constellation. It is also Greek mythology. Pleiades is a star cluster. It is also Greek mythology. Chambers may represent a star cluster. Job 38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? Mazzaroth in Hebrew means “The Constellations of the Zodiac”. Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring No explanation needed. Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. The 12th House (Pisces) is associated with secrets, seclusion and reclusion. Matthew 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. The 12th House (Pisces). Is that where the 12 disciples are conjured from? You be the judge. There are 164 references to the number 12 in the King James Version. Revelation 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.” Venus Revelation 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Seven seems to be a magical mystery number. It can have a lot of meanings. Seven stars can be a reference to the Pleiades star cluster. And that is tied to Pleiades, the seven sisters in Greek mythology. Seven can mean the seven heavenly bodies known at the time, namely the sun and the moon, as well as Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. The seven candlesticks could mean the Menorah. A Jewish branched candelabrum. The seven churches are cities within Turkey. Which is now 99.8% Muslim. There are 562 references to the number 7 in the King James Version. Matthew 4:18 And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers. Matthew 14:17 And they say unto him, We have here but five loaves, and two fishes. Matthew 14:19 And he commanded the multitude to sit down on the grass, and took the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed, and brake, and gave the loaves to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude. Mark 6:38 He saith unto them, How many loaves have ye? go and see. And when they knew, they say, Five and two fishes. Mark 6:41 And when he had taken the five loaves and the two fishes, he looked up to heaven, and blessed, and brake the loaves, and gave them to his disciples to set before them; and the two fishes divided he among them all. Luke 5:2 And saw two ships standing by the lake: but the fishermen were gone out of them, and were washing their nets. Luke 9:13 But he said unto them, Give ye them to eat. And they said, We have no more but five loaves and two fishes; except we should go and buy meat for all this people. Luke 9:16 Then he took the five loaves and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed them, and brake, and gave to the disciples to set before the multitude. John 6:9 There is a lad here, which hath five barley loaves, and two small fishes: but what are they among so many? John 21:8 And the other disciples came in a little ship; (for they were not far from land, but as it were two hundred cubits,) dragging the net with fishes. Two Fish? Sounds like Pisces to me. Symbols of Jesus (Christianity) are lamb (Aries) and fish (Pisces). And isn’t it strange that Pisces (astrology), Solar (March 12 - April 18) and Easter are together as well? Easter is within the Spring Equinox, after the winter where life is reborn (resurrected). The mentioning of the Ages - Matthew 28:20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age Meaning Pisces is with us till the end of this age. Mark 14:13 & Luke 22:10 And Jesus said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in. Meaning the man bearing a pitcher of water is in reference to Aquarius (The Water bearer). The next age. We're currently at the end in Pisces (Two Fish). House is another term used in astrology. Like in the 12th House (Pisces). Darkness and Light – 1 Kings 8:12 and 2 Chronicles 6:1 Then said Solomon, The LORD hath said that he would dwell in the thick darkness. Darkness so thick that the sun was covered. Basically it is nighttime or a solar eclipse. Psalm 18:11 He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies. Psalm 97:2 Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne. 1 Timothy 6:15 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. Matthew 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. Miscellaneous - Deus Sol Invictus ("the Unconquered Sun God") Sirius (East Star) Orion's Belt = Three Kings East Star and the Three Kings align with "the sun" on December 25th known as the Sol Invictus or "the birth of the sun". The constellation Virgo means virgin. The sign of Virgo is an inverted M. Hence the “Virgin Mary”. As in other virgin mothers like Myrra and Maya. Virgo also means, "house of bread". Bethlehem in Hebrew is translated to "house of bread". The most prominent star in Virgo is Spica (α Vir), which was sometimes considered to represent an ear of wheat in Virgo's hand. He was born, the Bible says, of a Virgin, the Virgo being the opposite sign of Pisces. Let us also point out that the sign of Virgo is also associated with the wheat head, immaculately white. Indeed, Christ nourished the multitude of people who followed Him with fish and bread. Ancient people with astronomical knowledge knew that the Vernal Equinox shifts into the next Zodiac sign (constellation) every 2150 years, and the passing of every age was celebrated. It is said that the birth of Moses is the biblical translation for the end of the age of the worship of Taurus the bull (false idols) into Aries, and the birth of Jesus is the translation of the shift from Aries to Pisces-the fish. Researchers state that the three kings and the star above Jesus' birth place were the Three Kings Stars from Orion's belt that align with the star Sirius when the December 25 Equinox shifts into Pisces. Thus Jesus represents the sun, and his most important dates are the Christmas equinox and the Easter equinox. Some people even say that Jesus was created as a earthly person when the holy Roman Bible was written in 300AD in their translation of the Astrological Scriptures. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox...cts_and_fables The Exaltation (astrology) planet for Pisces is Venus. The planet of love. Which the “sun” told us to do. Love thy neighbor and stuff. There is either a solstice (summer and winter) or an equinox (autumn and spring) on approximately the 21st day of the last month of every quarter of the calendar year. Christmas and Easter. Therefore, I conclude that Christians are actually sun worshipers. Not “son” of God worshipers as they believe.

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07-11-2010, 08:52 PM	#5
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	I don't think so. The gnostic Christians predated Constantine by most people's reckoning. Their Jesus was a spiritual entity.

07-12-2010, 01:03 AM	#7
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	There were Gnostics before Constantine, even if some gnostic texts post-date Nicaea. Which of these gnostics believed that the holy Roman Bible was written in 300AD by translating the Astrological Scriptures?

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