JPD

You don't know what it is that you can see a part of though and no book will enable you to verify or validate what you feel. Your explanations are put together by lifting parts of Biblical verses so they sound convincing but are ultimately without substance.


You will find that many here - myself included - took the test and came to reject it. It all sounds so appealing but anything that promises results but rests upon circular logic and a lack of actual evidence to get one's teeth into isn't going to last. It certainly doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

JPD

Do these generally form a sound basis for your decision making in everyday life?
If you feel that they don't, then why trust them for something which, on the basis of your beliefs, must be far more important to you than life itself?
If you feel that they do, but given your subjective approach, do you not have nagging doubts about their reliability? Do you not ask how intelligent and loving a creator can be who expects you to believe such a ridiculous variety of poorly supported and at times contradictory statements when exactly what is original text and what is amendments/deletions isn't entirely clear?

Helpmabob

Dear John - I just know. So do you, deep down. He’s the one who can enable you to say: “I am not going to Hell.� There is only one. Start searching now, and when you find Him, stop searching.

Dear JPD – My faith is in things unseen, that I grant. But allegorically speaking, my faith is founded on solid rock, not sand. It is the most outstandingly wonderful and beautiful good news that has been revealed to man.

Is this you description of faith? It has lasted 2005 years, which by anyone’s standards is pretty good.Each day I attend to wordly matters, as well as spiritual matters. These are for spiritual concerns, whereas for wordly matters, I tend to use common sense.Please take my word for this - I love life in all it's abundance and variety, but there is more, there is a spiritual side hidden there to be discovered.

JPD, I have a trivia question for you: Can you tell me who is given a Bible and is told: “We present you with this Book, the most valuable thing this world affords. Here is wisdom….�

JPD

You could call it a quiet pool of reflection, a storm cloud of excitement, a slow and deep river of contemplation or any other of a vast number of allegories but they don't take you any closer to something that you do not know is anything at all. That you need to use allegories only indicates that you have no idea what it is that you are trying to describe. In its absence you complete the cycle for yourself. Most of us here have been through the "wonderful and beautiful good news" so you should stop pretending that what you are describing is in any way novel to us. We have already been where you are.

But what is it exactly that has lasted? It is something that probably will always be with humankind because there is nothing there in the first instance. One cannot remove nothingness but one can spend a lifetime dwelling upon it.

I will agree with you that there is a great deal that we do not understand but claiming that the answer is God offers nothing greater than "I don't know". It may give you a nice warm feeling but ask yourself where that comes from. You tell yourself that it comes from a source far removed from reality but the imagination is - I don't need to tell you this - a profoundly bizarre and powerful tool/state/mechanism. How can one claim that a set of beliefs do not have an entirely worldly basis? Given the incredible nature of the universe, its creator, if there is one, is not something that should be in any way feared. Why on earth would fear be an intelligent tool for such a creator to utilise? Clearly a creator that utilises fear is fearful of humans.

The new King or Queen is presented with the King James version of the Bible during the coronation ceremony. In one way royalty present the height of stupidity in a democracy and the pretence on which it runs. However we could of course do far worse.
Robert Musil said that "We must strive for democracy - and prevent its realization". I think that it is better to journey than to arrive.
I regard arrival as folly.

John A. Broussard

I must admit that this is a surprising answer. Many theists on this thread have said, "I believe, period," but you're the first one who has said, "You believe, period."

I sure can't argue with that except to question your sanity.

Clarice O'C

An amazing assertion. How can you know what others know "deep down?" This isn't a rhetorical question. I really want to know. And in your own words, if you are able to think for yourself.

Your emotions have overruled your intellect, Helpmebob, big time. Prove me wrong.

Helpmabob

Wait a minute - does anyone here, apart from me, actually believe in Hell? Please tell me I'm not the only one...

John A. Broussard

What in the world difference does it make whether one of us, all of us or none of us believe in hell?

Please explain. Will you feel more comfortable if you have company in this belief? Abandoned if you have none?

I'm sure there are Christian forums where you can wallow in the posters dire predictions of what will happen to the overwhelming billions of people on earth once they've died.

I look forward to an explanation for your plaint.

ddd3dturner

Hell as defined by some fundies as a place of eternal torment?

I don't believe in it for many different reasons. It's a transparent attempt to gain power through use of fear, taking advantage of the mythology that was popular a couple thousand years ago. It doesn't make logical sense, it isn't clearly defined, universally accepted, etc, etc.

Why would anyone believe in it?

Maybe because Christians are so affected by their desire to believe, their fear of honestly investigating other ideas, and their lust for power, that they still find it a useful threat. I know kids are impressed with the threat of eternal torment but they don't have a broad philosophical, political or sociological basis of experience to draw from.

That's why kids need protected from Christians.

DanT

Joan of Bark

I'll believe in Hell when someone brings me back a souvenir from the place. A keychain is always nice, or perhaps a MY BROTHER-IN-LAW WENT TO HELL AND ALL I GOT IS THIS LOUSY T-SHIRT t-shirt ... preferably sooty and scorched.

This gives you some idea of my feelings about the existence of Hell. There is more evidence for Shangri-La or Atlantis.