vipertaja

The war in heaven...y'know, where the main mans right hand guy gets thrown
down to hell with his cabal of fallen angels. I simply love this theme...it's so
dramatic (especially the way they use it in modern fiction like the horus heresy).

However when applying it to an omimax god such as the christian one IE Yahwe
I see a problem. Not only is it a bit of an anticlimax to have one side allmighty,
it renders the whole concept useless. Why did the whole war take place instead
of God just flipping an allmighty switch opening a trap door sending satan to burn
for his troubles? Why all the epic battle for the sake of nothing?

It would make perfect sense for and even indicates a god that is not allmighty.
At least that's what I gather. After all, most religions I've heard of with such
battles did not have an omnimax god (IE scandinavian gods, greek gods etc.
with the scandinavian gods going even so far as dying permanently in it).

mata leao

free will. free will is the "dna" undergirding every aspect of God's creation and plan, including apologetics and the evidentiary calculus, as revealed. free will is like a stunningly beautiful woman.... it can make life "hell" but it makes life worth living! (my analogy, not canon!)

general_koffi

It was God's day off, so he left it to Michael and Co. to sort things out.

vipertaja

What does that concept...that I don't beleve in anyway...have to do with being
able to prevent a war and still have the same consequences?

mata leao

how graphic am I allowed to make my analogy here? sheesh! free will, a stunningly beautifal woman.....flirtation, seduction, courtship, marriage, wedding.....honeymoon......; you really want to live in the artificial "matrix"(referring to the movie)?

vipertaja

Shut up about free will already...it has nothing to do with the topic.
No matter how beautiful the woman is.

I mean this.
You are god and can see satan and his assembled army ranking up etc. preparing
for assault. You saw this coming and end already before it happened and to you
it's basically less than a mosquito sh*t to handle. YET you assemble your troops
as well and send them off to die and let your new favourite do YOUR dirty work.
You herd an unending horizon of your angel sheep herd to the slaughter, when
you could have had the same result by just banishing Satan with his armies and
be done with it outright.

mata leao

au contraire viper my friend, free will has "everything" to do with it.....why not skip the flirtation, seduction, courtship,marriage, wedding, honeymoon and remain single, celibate and watch romantic old movies? God made the world real, both the physical and spiritual. hard work is hard, bullets hurt, courage under fire is rewarded with real medals and turns the eye of many a pretty girl, puppy dogs are cuddly, orgasms are wonderful, forty year old aged single malt scotch tastes "heavenly"...... p.s. foretelling is not the same thing theologically as pre-ordaining, You see that stunningly beautiful woman standing over there at the tea dance? will she say yes or no? ......... God aint' gonna go over there and ask her for ya son, you gotta go yourself.....(first year seminary condensed version!)

vipertaja

This conversation is now officially nonsensical, not to mention it tastes degrading.

Could you please TRY to answer the question properly instead of trying to
appeal to my genitals? Please? A little maturity from you..."dad"?

God seems quite pleased enough to strike down SOME people outright in the
texts, not to mention even ordering people to kill their own sons as tests, but
yet he gives this satan a shot at the championship belt (or at least pretends to)
and the superintelligent satan we are always warned about takes the bait like a
numbskull...not to mention does exactly what god wants him to as a punisher in
hell while still being "renegade" so to speak.

general_koffi

It is interesting to note that Satan is depicted as God's loyal servant in so many scriptures...

Not that anything can go against God's will, mind you. Not if He's supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent.

vipertaja

After all, satan never rebelled in the first place in jewish
faith, as I understand he is more of a prosecutor there.

Also if I recall correctly angels have no free will our
fellow leao so stubbornly brings up. Even if satan had
been granted free will he would not have been able to
recruit an army.