Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Clivedurdle · 11-03-2008, 09:42 AM

What might be the music behind certain passages? Have we lost the singer side of singer songwriter teams?

http://www.freeratio.org/vbb/showthr...=1#post5637703

Quote:

Revelation 14:1-11

"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."

Quote:

I was brought up Pentecostal and almost know that passage off by heart!

What is interesting is the rhythms that are obvious even in translation.

Are we looking at an opera? How would you work out the original music? Wagner had a time machine?

What was the new song they sang?

Lógos Sokratikós · 11-03-2008, 10:21 AM

Mamma mia
Mamma mia let me go
Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me for me
For meeeeeeee!

Clivedurdle · 11-03-2008, 12:02 PM

I forgot Queen!

But who has studied the relationships between music and these texts?

Clivedurdle · 11-03-2008, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Lorenzo Candelaria
Title: Assistant Professor of Musicology,
University of Texas at Austin
Education: Ph.D. and M.Phil., Musicology, Yale University; B.Mus., Music History, Oberlin College/Conservatory;
Classical Violin Studies, Cleveland Institute of Music
Age: 35 When Lorenzo Candelaria’s 7-year-old daughter asked what he does at work, the University of Texas musicologist told her, “I study the way people pray.”
“Sacred music and art allow us to touch the face of God, through our perception of the world around us,” says Candelaria, an expert on the Catholic sacred music of Spain and Mexico. “They’re the direct ways through which we try to make sense of life and the afterlife, to understand and gain favor with God. The emotion is the magic that happens at that point of contact.”
While intended to be enigmatic, devotional music was not meant to be esoteric, says the scholar. “So I try to make it meaningful and accessible to others; take it out there to people. It’s fun to see my students get charged up about medieval sacred music.”
A few years ago, Candelaria lived briefly amid the Benedictine monks of Santo Domingo, Spain. While at their abbey, he reveled in the sound and study of Gregorian chant. Even today, pondering an old manuscript of church music evokes for him the transcendent experience of a Catholic mass: the mystical sounds, aromatic incense, sun light filtered through stained glass, robed clergy in ritual movement. It is this multi-sensory experience that he seeks to recreate for his students and readers.
“Those chant manuscripts, illustrated with gorgeous pictures, are the multimedia of the Renaissance,” he says. “With their words, music, images, even border decorations that are almost like ads, they’re not dissimilar to the Web sites of today.”

http://www.diverseeducation.com/artm...cle_6859.shtml

How would we go about working out the effect of music on religious experience and understanding?

Quote:

Music Went With Cave Art In Prehistoric Caves

ScienceDaily (July 5, 2008) — Thousands of years later, we can view stone-age art on cave walls, but we can't listen to the stone-age music that would have accompanied many of the pictures. In many sites, flutes made of bone are to be found nearby.
See also:
Iegor Reznikoff of the University of Paris reports that the most acoustically resonant place in a cave -- where sounds linger or reverberate the most -- was also often the place where the pictures were densest.
And when the most-resonant spot was located in a very narrow passageway too difficult for painting, red marks are often found, as if the resonance maximum had to be signified in some way. This correlation of paintings and music, Reznikoff says, provides "the best evidence for the ritualistic meanings of the paintings and of the use of the adorned caves."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0704130439.htm

Casper · 11-03-2008, 05:26 PM

Maybe some Kansas followed abruptly by Motorhead.

Clivedurdle · 11-04-2008, 02:37 PM

http://www.musicedmagic.com/music-hi...ent-music.html

I think Mark was probably written as a play - what if it were a musical? Jesus Christ Superstar and Godspell may be closer to reality than we realise.

I have found odd comments about music but no real discussion of it possibly being a major influence on the history of religion.

When Julian went through his Mithraic exprience, what was the soundscape initiates experienced?

Did early xians experience the music of the spheres as part of their initiation? Might the Baptism in the Holy Spirit been musical?

Music has been a critical part of the history of Xianity, for example the monasteries, the eighteenth century, Methodism and the spirituals.

Clivedurdle · 11-05-2008, 08:54 AM

I don't understand the lack of response here! We have had wondrous discussions of drugs here, surely rock and roll has to be part of the mix!

Clivedurdle · 11-05-2008, 09:00 AM

http://www.richeast.org/htwm/Greeks/...e/Theatre.html

Quote:

Background on Ancient Greek Theatre

Many people have misconceptions about the ancient Greek theatre. When ancient Greek theatre is referenced to, it normally means Greek theatre in Athens during the fifth century BCE. These early dramas did more that act a story. These were stylized dramas with meanings behind the obvious. Understanding a Greek play is only possible if the symbolic significance of the actions, actors, and stage is revealed.
Many words assoiated with theatre have roots in Greek.

theatre comes for the word theatron meaning "seeing place"
drama comes form the word dran meaning "to do"

Many dramas were presented in the theate in Athens, yet only forty-three plays have been found intact. There were, however, many plays, comedies, and commentaries left in fragments
Start of Ancient Greek Theatre

Ancient Greek theatre was a "... mixture of myth, legend, philosophy, social commentary, poetry, dance, music, public participation, and visual splendor." (Cohen 64) It began as a religious ceremony.
The Anthenian theatre focused on the God Dionysus. Dionysus was the God of:

fertility (main duty)
wine
agriculture
sexuality

Athenians had an annual fertility festival in March with one week of public wine drinking and phallus, penis worshiping religious orgy. Their religious rite was performed as a dithyrambos, an ancient dance and chant to the fertility god, normally performed while drunk. It was performed outside in bowl-like craters. This festival celebrated the birth of the wine god, Dionysus and the great grapes that made the wine. This festival was performed yearly at four tribal festivals, called an orgia. It was also called the "Festival of the Wine Jugs" and "Old Dionysia," as stated by Cohen. The religious rites for these ceremonies were eventually written down in verse form and later became plays.
Misconceptions about Ancient Greek Theatre

Many people believe that the ancient Greek theatre consisted of white buildings with white scenes and white clothing. This "knowledge" came about when Victorians found theatre ruins without color. These, however, were only colorless because the colors on the ruins had faded over the years. The ancient Greek theatre actually consisted of loud music, bright colors, and extensive dancing. Their plays showed:

violence and daily life
social and ethical plays
war
murder
lust
betrayal

Clivedurdle · 11-05-2008, 09:06 AM

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches:

Clivedurdle · 11-05-2008, 09:10 AM

And He took a cup and when He had given thanks, He gave it to them and they drank all of it and He said to them, 'This is my blood of the New Covenant which is poured out for many. Truly I say to you, I shall not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.'"

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11-03-2008, 10:21 AM	#2
Lógos Sokratikós Contributor Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Virtually right here where you are Posts: 11,138	Mamma mia Mamma mia let me go Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me for me For meeeeeeee!

11-03-2008, 12:02 PM	#3
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	I forgot Queen! But who has studied the relationships between music and these texts?

11-03-2008, 05:26 PM	#5
Casper Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 430	Maybe some Kansas followed abruptly by Motorhead.

11-04-2008, 02:37 PM	#6
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	http://www.musicedmagic.com/music-hi...ent-music.html I think Mark was probably written as a play - what if it were a musical? Jesus Christ Superstar and Godspell may be closer to reality than we realise. I have found odd comments about music but no real discussion of it possibly being a major influence on the history of religion. When Julian went through his Mithraic exprience, what was the soundscape initiates experienced? Did early xians experience the music of the spheres as part of their initiation? Might the Baptism in the Holy Spirit been musical? Music has been a critical part of the history of Xianity, for example the monasteries, the eighteenth century, Methodism and the spirituals.

11-05-2008, 08:54 AM	#7
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	I don't understand the lack of response here! We have had wondrous discussions of drugs here, surely rock and roll has to be part of the mix!

11-05-2008, 09:06 AM	#9
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches:

11-05-2008, 09:10 AM	#10
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	And He took a cup and when He had given thanks, He gave it to them and they drank all of it and He said to them, 'This is my blood of the New Covenant which is poured out for many. Truly I say to you, I shall not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.'"

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