Freethought & Rationalism Archive

nygreenguy · 02-19-2006, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

First you're going to have to do a lot better than the Bible as your only source of Jesus' life. What evidence have you that you can trust it in this regards? The accounts of Jesus as "savior" and all that glitz is pure fiction made up after the man died a criminal on the cross.

Well, i was adressing his concearn as to how CHRISTIANS came to that conclusion. And since the bible IS a christian book, i figured it would be fitting. Granted, YOU might not care about the christian bible and what it says or what christians believe, but the op asked about a christian explination.

Chris Weimer · 02-19-2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nygreenguy

Well, i was adressing his concearn as to how CHRISTIANS came to that conclusion. And since the bible IS a christian book, i figured it would be fitting. Granted, YOU might not care about the christian bible and what it says or what christians believe, but the op asked about a christian explination.

So how does "So, the article describes Jesus, but the Jews have failed to realize the divinity of christ." answer the question of the OP again? Oh right, it doesn't.

nygreenguy · 02-19-2006, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

So how does "So, the article describes Jesus, but the Jews have failed to realize the divinity of christ." answer the question of the OP again? Oh right, it doesn't.

ok, any any of your posts have related how? last i checked you only criticize me, instead of adding your OWN input? Pot...Kettle...anyone? :banghead:

Amaleq13 · 02-19-2006, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard2

I thought the same, but I just wanted to hear it from someone elses mouth first, as I'm not an expert in these things. Thanks.

Glad to help though "expert" is not something I would call myself. "Excessively familiar to the point of mental illness", perhaps.

I think nygreenguy has shown that this is not a rational argument that might cause concern in a "skeptic" but an argument from faith.

nygreenguy · 02-19-2006, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

Glad to help though "expert" is not something I would call myself. "Excessively familiar to the point of mental illness", perhaps.

I think nygreenguy has shown that this is not a rational argument that might cause concern in a "skeptic" but an argument from faith.

I think i agree. There is a lot of emotion vested in this argument. This is a discussion about the person who will save "religon x" and if one is wrong, then its eternal damnation. I not sure HOW a skeptic/athiest would approach this as many just seem to think its all bs anyhow, and the end result is meaningless.

richard2 · 02-19-2006, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Metacrock's arguments are contained in one of his web pages here.
He relies on Alfred Edersheim, a Biblical scholar who converted to Chistianity and was a missionary to the Jews of Romania. I'm not up on these arguments, but I think I recall Jewish objections to reading the Christian Messiah into the Targum.

I would like to read those objections if you could find them.

richard2 · 02-20-2006, 08:54 AM

Or if someone could point out the flaws in Metacrocks argument, I'd appreciate it. Ah, I don't know why this stuff worries me! *takes an Ativan*

pharoah · 02-20-2006, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard2

Or if someone could point out the flaws in Metacrocks argument, I'd appreciate it. Ah, I don't know why this stuff worries me! *takes an Ativan*

the first thing to ask yourself is how can one eternally existing deity be the "son" of another eternally existing deity? Ask any Christian to explain to you exactly how or when this happened and you'll never get a coherent answer.

richard2 · 02-20-2006, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pharoah

the first thing to ask yourself is how can one eternally existing deity be the "son" of another eternally existing deity? Ask any Christian to explain to you exactly how or when this happened and you'll never get a coherent answer.

Yeah, you'll get the "it's a paradox!" response.

the_cave · 02-20-2006, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard2

Hi,

I've been reading about the Memra, the Logos, how they relate to Jesus, and the development of the trinity. I'm a bit worried.

I don't understand--what are you worried about?

Quote:

So, a few questions: Is this memra not Jesus? Did early Christians tie all of this thought together to make it fit together in the person of Jesus?

By now I have no doubt that this sort of theology played a role in the development of early Christianity. This isn't well-known popularly, but I've seen some scholarship that's studied it. To me it seems obvious that Christianity and the Judaism of the first century were closely linked in this regard--but the closeness of this relationship doesn't appear to be a popular position among many orthodox believers of both faiths. I don't know what the official line from Jerusalem was at the time on this sort of thing, but if you read the apocrypha from the era, it seems obvious that this kind of angelology was extremely popular and creative. Enoch, Michael, Metatron...they all seem to take on the role of the divine mediator in various different texts. In fact, it seems to me that in many ways Christianity was more closely descended from it than what we now call Judaism.

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02-20-2006, 08:54 AM	#17
richard2 Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The Nox Planet Posts: 438	Or if someone could point out the flaws in Metacrocks argument, I'd appreciate it. Ah, I don't know why this stuff worries me! takes an Ativan

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