mikey1987

why is jesus the source of objective morality in christianity? he wasn't "perfect". although perfect may be defined differently.

if you define perfect as the example of jesus, then he was perfect.

but if you define jesus AS perfect according to the definition found in dictionaries, he is far from it.

Matthew:
13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; (13:41-42, 49-50) Jesus will send his angels to gather up "all that offend" and they "shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Luke:
19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

John:
15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

why follow a man who wishes to bnig harm upon others? the senstive "perfect" man depicted in paints hardly seems to be a guy worth following. He orders people to murder non-believers.

why would following jesus be worthwhile? one must either accept the negative goals or ignore them (and hope jesus really didnt say them). of course its possible jesus never existed anyway.

Boomeister

Jesus was not perfect, nor 100 percent moral. He was a good man, I don't doubt that. A great spiritual teacher, especially for that time period. He preached loving God and loving others. He had his moments that went against his own teachings, but over all, I have no beef with the guy. After all, he's only human. I contradict myself too sometimes.
I believe it's possible he existed, but people tend to deify him. Then again, there's no solid proof that he existed. So, who really knows?
If Jesus is God in human form, then that could explain why our world is the way it is. Perhaps God also has flaws and cannot intervene very well. He created the world, but maybe the project got too complicated for him and it was way over his head.
Humans tend to attribute every action as being "blessed by God" or "cursed by God." When really the wars of the Old Testament and all it's atrocities were just our own doings. We are both good and bad.
Let's face it...the writers of the different books of the bible were humans and flawed. Their concept of God isn't any better than yours, mine, or that old man sitting on the corner begging for money.


Boomeister

TheBigKahoona

I'd just like to make a small correction to your post. Jesus says he will order ANGELS to kill non-believers. There is a big difference there.

Gamut

It's not.

MadMez

So. Just to line-up my old befuddled mind, the big difference would be what, exactly? Jesus orders the death of non-believers through the agency of angels who can enlist the help of men to kill non-believers?

So which ever label a demented person applies to the representation of the voices speaking in their mind can be mitigated by saying "oh shit, no, I can kill these people, as angels guide my hand!�

Get professional help. Soon.

Crucifiction

Exactly. Jesus was perfect according to his own definition of the word. But according to the definitions others use, say, Buddhists; he was not.

TheBigKahoona

I'm sorry, but there is a difference between "All my followers should go kill all the unbelievers on earth" and "when the rapture comes all the unbelievers on earth will be killed".

Are you saying all religious people are demented or are you saying that demented people use the Bible to justify their actions? If it is the latter then I don't see how it applies to our discussion. Should we get rid of dogs because one crazy man thought his pooch told him to kill people?

French Prometheus

There's this old thread of mine for those interested:
Jesus, the epitome of tolerance? I think not...

show_no_mercy

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

Notice how Jesus never casts a stone...