DoubtingDave

Long video, but worthwhile--especially to understand refuting prophetic arguments for Jesus.

GakuseiDon

Thanks for the link, I'm watching it now. Very interesting! Some quotes (not word-for-word) "Born-again Christians want to convince others about the Bible so they can convince themselves" and "They don't go to Matthew, Mark or the other Gospels to convince Jews. They want to show Jewish people that all of Christian theology, every single piece of Christian faith, can be found in the Hebrew Bible."

mountainman

An interesting perspective. Thanks.

DoubtingDave

Not a problem; thanks for watching part of the video. Sorry it was so long. Anyways, I believe it utterly refutes the idea that the 300 prophecies "prove" that jesus is messiah when in all reality, it is circular reasoning.

sotto voce

Could we see an example? For those with limited time.

DoubtingDave

Fundamentalist Christians believe that almost every passage in the OT points to Jesus; one of which is Hosea 11:1 which is quoted by Matthew to say "out of Egypt have I called my Son"; however, the full verse says "When ISRAEL was a child, I loved him; and out of Egypt I have called my son..." and the rest talks about the transgressions of Israel. Sound like Jesus? :huh:

sotto voce

That's not true. Not even the most dedicated fundamentalist believes that Ahab and Haman are pre-figurements of Jesus. But mainstream scholarship has always believed that there are pre-figurements of Jesus in the OT.

Did the speaker not love Jesus? And the term 'Israel', like many Hebrew words, has multiple meanings, as any Jew knows. I can't see how there is any qualification here.

Doug Shaver

For most of us in this forum, "mainstream scholarship" is not synonymous with "evangelical scholarship."

mountainman

At approx 0:45:20 he states (modern) "christians mine the Jewish Bible". The context is a story that concludes that an archer has been painting the bullseye around whever his arrow finds a tree. (Christian "glasses")



The first Christians (the Most Holy Apostolic Boneheads) did the same thing. It's some sort of habit. It also seems to suggest quite clearly that whoever authored the new testament canonical books had a copy of the Greek LXX before them. They were process workers at the copy/paste scriptoria, and they data mined the LXX for the purposes of infesting their new and strange story with unbelievable coincidences, which would be claimed as miraculous. Rabbi Michael Skobac might be interested to read what the historian Arnaldo Momigliano claimed as miraculous.

Doug Shaver

That idea was refuted ages ago. But, I'll have a look at the video when I have more time, just to see if there is anything in it that I don't already know.