Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jack the Bodiless · 02-13-2008, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack the Bodiless

Maybe this arnoldo should have a chat with the other arnoldo who thinks that sugarhitman is wrong? The one who thinks that Tyre has already been essentially "destroyed"?

Yes the former Tyre has been detroyed. There is no mainland city, and the once great island fortress is no more even her walls are gone. She has been diminished to a mere fishing site. The only thing that really remains of Tyre is her name....and that only. :wave:

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Still fixated on the walls and streets of Tyre, huh?

:funny:

Comedy gold!

spin · 02-13-2008, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

Yes the former Tyre has been detroyed. There is no mainland city, and the once great island fortress is no more even her walls are gone. She has been diminished to a mere fishing site. The only thing that really remains of Tyre is her name....and that only. :wave:

Funny, isn't it? Tyre is now bigger than it's ever been. With a few hiccups it's had continuous occupation for 4000 years. Ugarit after its destruction never came back. Lachish went. Babylon went. Nineveh. But little Tyre just keeps going on despite the doom and gloom prophecy bullshit.

You guys are the best spokesmen for why religion sucks. You've prostituted any integrity you might have had in order to fabricate non-truths to keep the sham of a fulfilled Tyre prophecy afloat.

Tyre still exists despite your delusions.

:boohoo:

spin

sugarhitman · 02-13-2008, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack the Bodiless

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

This proves without a doubt that this army was the army of Babylon...and not some multi-national force. (Again a multi-NATIONAL force is a coalition of armies of SOVERIEGN States who are not under the authority of one State army. Their participation is voluntary.) The army of Babylon= One nation. The critics have invented this error of a multi-national army to delude themselves and others about the Tyre Prophecy.

Still trying to use your profound ignorance of ancient warfare as an argument?

Did you even know that the Babylonian Empire began as ONE CITY? Babylon started as a city-state, which absorbed and/or conquered other city-states.

Nebby was an "overking", a "king of kings", a ruler over many nations. Even Ezekiel says so! And STILL you insist that Ezekiel was LYING about that.

And when this king of kings finished conquering other states guess what he was still referred to as King of Babylon and this EMPIRE Babylonian EMPIRE. One nation, one kingdom. The greek empire took over many nations but under Alex it was the Grecian Empire (one kingdom, one nation) Roman Empire etc etc. They were not a United Nations, but individual kingdoms which subjugeted other nations but still considered a singular kingdom and nation. Oh Jack you should know better than that (what a nice rhyme). :wave:

WVIncagold · 02-13-2008, 09:26 AM

I wonder if the wisdom of sugarhitman an arnoldo can give some specific numbers. nothing much but considering their claim both have talked and subscribe to a 13 year siege, i am more the capable of taking their agreed numbers and develop a quartermaster report needed to support such a siege. The siege they both claim was on mainland. I accept their delusion. if there was old Tyre on the mainland as they claim then the siege took place. Just trying to gain some significant math to either show that a 13 YEAR SIEGE WAS POSSIBLE. Math does not lie guys. Could Nebby from your perspective support a 13 year military siege? All i need is the number of the population or armed men on mainland Tyre. since you say it exists these numbers should be a known. Simple military math on numbers will give us the number required to maintain the siege you both say happened. these numbers have fluctuated but i will pull the oldest possible on record. I can also figure the number of siege engines required in order to destroy a defensive city to rubble. Unless your afraid of math entering into a discussion to help prove or disprove your argument. both of your knowledge of military actions is not only unschooled and considerably ignorant of the very simple military maneuvers.

arnoldo · 02-13-2008, 09:27 AM

And here is a list of the Kings of Tyre. You will notice that after the year 573 they are all under to control of foreign powers, again the prophecy is fulfilled unless your obsessive compulsive about the streets and walls of Tyre.
Kings of Tyre, Under control of Babylon 573 - 539 BC
And here is a list of the princes of Tyre sent into exile into babylon.
To Babylon........573-539

Yup, the Tyre Kings and Princes sent into exile in Babylon sure thought Zekey was a false prophet,not. BTW, the Jews were also in babylon at the time and accused Zekey of being a false prophet, just like you are doing today :wave:
Oh, that's right, the prophecy failed because it was mainly about the walls and streets of Tyre not the relgious,political, and economic system that was ruling there at the time of Zekey (MES syndrome).

arnoldo · 02-13-2008, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVIncagold

I wonder if the wisdom of sugarhitman an arnoldo can give some specific numbers. nothing much but considering their claim both have talked and subscribe to a 13 year siege, i am more the capable of taking their agreed numbers and develop a quartermaster report needed to support such a siege. The siege they both claim was on mainland. I accept their delusion. if there was old Tyre on the mainland as they claim then the siege took place. Just trying to gain some significant math to either show that a 13 YEAR SIEGE WAS POSSIBLE. Math does not lie guys. Could Nebby from your perspective support a 13 year military siege? All i need is the number of the population or armed men on mainland Tyre. since you say it exists these numbers should be a known. Simple military math on numbers will give us the number required to maintain the siege you both say happened. these numbers have fluctuated but i will pull the oldest possible on record. I can also figure the number of siege engines required in order to destroy a defensive city to rubble. Unless your afraid of math entering into a discussion to help prove or disprove your argument. both of your knowledge of military actions is not only unschooled and considerably ignorant of the very simple military maneuvers.

Umm, any thoughts on how long Nebby's siege on Jerusalem happened, or was that a non-event?

Sheshonq · 02-13-2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

Exactly! Tyre remains until the final Judgement.

The problem with that lame, desperate interpretation is that it contradicts Ezekiel. The prophecy indicates that the surrounding nations surrounding Tyre would be witnesses to this destruction. Ch 27 lists all of Tyre's trading partners, and talks about what they traded and how rich their fineries and merchant wares were. Then it says that all Tyre's neighbors will see the destruction first-hand, clearly indicating that Ezekiel intended this destruction to occur immediately in the times he lived in:

Quote:

EZE 27:32 And in their wailing they shall take up a lamentation for thee, and lament over thee, saying, What city is like Tyrus, like the destroyed in the midst of the sea?
EZE 27:33 When thy wares went forth out of the seas, thou filledst many people; thou didst enrich the kings of the earth with the multitude of thy riches and of thy merchandise.
EZE 27:34 In the time when thou shalt be broken by the seas in the depths of the waters thy merchandise and all thy company in the midst of thee shall fall.
EZE 27:35 All the inhabitants of the isles shall be astonished at thee, and their kings shall be sore afraid, they shall be troubled in their countenance.
EZE 27:36 The merchants among the people shall hiss at thee; thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt be any more.

Quote:

Only one has attempted so far (Sheshong) who says that it is a contradiction, or that it is P-O-E-T-I-C language and not literal. In otherwords he has no idea....and niether does Jack

I have far more of an "idea" than you do. What's more, my ideas don't twist the text or dead-end in a contradiction. Result? PROPHECY FAILS! :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

Jack the Bodiless · 02-13-2008, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

And here is a list of the Kings of Tyre. You will notice that after the year 573 they are all under to control of foreign powers, again the prophecy is fulfilled unless your obsessive compulsive about the streets and walls of Tyre.
Kings of Tyre, Under control of Babylon 573 - 539 BC
And here is a list of the princes of Tyre sent into exile into babylon.
To Babylon........573-539

Yup, the Tyre Kings and Princes sent into exile in Babylon sure thought Zekey was a false prophet,not. BTW, the Jews were also in babylon at the time and accused Zekey of being a false prophet, just like you are doing today :wave:
Oh, that's right, the prophecy failed because it was mainly about the walls and streets of Tyre not the relgious,political, and economic system that was ruling there at the time of Zekey (MES syndrome).

So, this arnoldo is trying to claim that Ezekiel's prophecy was only about the kings of Tyre?

And that (contrary to the arguments of various other arnoldos), the prophecy was actually fulfilled in its entirety by Nebby?

What a pity Ezekiel said no such thing. How unfortunate that he gave Nebby specific tasks that Nebby never carried out.

And that the "religious, political and economic system" survived (without the king).

And how unfortunate that the "permanent destruction" ended when Tyre got its monarchy back.

Sheshonq · 02-13-2008, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

Before im off to a few hours sleep let me end this session by saying "The Hammers (Sugar, Arnoldo) hammers continuously against the rocks of error, until they are broken into a thousand pieces....and they will brake sooner or later. Good night.

Stop, Hammer Time.

Anyway, these people obviously suffer from Minimalist Eye Syndrom (MES) and wouldn't know a fulfilled prophecy if it came up behind them and slapped them upside the head.

Maybe if you didn't do such a crappy job of defending your position?
Maybe if you weren't dishonestly misrepresenting other people's statements?
Maybe if you had teh guts to address the mistakes that we've pointed out?

Or maybe the prophecies just fail, and you can't accept it?

Quote:

Zekey both prophesied to the people of Jerusalem and Tyre that the cities would be attacked by Nebby. The Jews and the people of Tyre both scoffed at zeke. I guess when the princes of Tyre and the princes of Israel were both in captivity in Babylon they continued to think that Zekey was a false prophet :huh:

Ezekiel screwed up. Tyre never fell. Oops. PROPHECY FAILS! :rolling:

Jack the Bodiless · 02-13-2008, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack the Bodiless

Still trying to use your profound ignorance of ancient warfare as an argument?

Did you even know that the Babylonian Empire began as ONE CITY? Babylon started as a city-state, which absorbed and/or conquered other city-states.

Nebby was an "overking", a "king of kings", a ruler over many nations. Even Ezekiel says so! And STILL you insist that Ezekiel was LYING about that.

And when this king of kings finished conquering other states guess what he was still referred to as King of Babylon and this EMPIRE Babylonian EMPIRE. One nation, one kingdom. The greek empire took over many nations but under Alex it was the Grecian Empire (one kingdom, one nation) Roman Empire etc etc. They were not a United Nations, but individual kingdoms which subjugeted other nations but still considered a singular kingdom and nation. Oh Jack you should know better than that (what a nice rhyme). :wave:

Translation: "I, sugarhitman, again declare that Ezekiel was a liar".

Why are you defending a person you consider to be a liar, sugarhitman?

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02-13-2008, 09:26 AM	#194
WVIncagold Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: West Virginina Posts: 4,349	I wonder if the wisdom of sugarhitman an arnoldo can give some specific numbers. nothing much but considering their claim both have talked and subscribe to a 13 year siege, i am more the capable of taking their agreed numbers and develop a quartermaster report needed to support such a siege. The siege they both claim was on mainland. I accept their delusion. if there was old Tyre on the mainland as they claim then the siege took place. Just trying to gain some significant math to either show that a 13 YEAR SIEGE WAS POSSIBLE. Math does not lie guys. Could Nebby from your perspective support a 13 year military siege? All i need is the number of the population or armed men on mainland Tyre. since you say it exists these numbers should be a known. Simple military math on numbers will give us the number required to maintain the siege you both say happened. these numbers have fluctuated but i will pull the oldest possible on record. I can also figure the number of siege engines required in order to destroy a defensive city to rubble. Unless your afraid of math entering into a discussion to help prove or disprove your argument. both of your knowledge of military actions is not only unschooled and considerably ignorant of the very simple military maneuvers.

02-13-2008, 09:27 AM	#195
arnoldo Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Latin America Posts: 4,066	And here is a list of the Kings of Tyre. You will notice that after the year 573 they are all under to control of foreign powers, again the prophecy is fulfilled unless your obsessive compulsive about the streets and walls of Tyre. Kings of Tyre, Under control of Babylon 573 - 539 BC And here is a list of the princes of Tyre sent into exile into babylon. To Babylon........573-539 Yup, the Tyre Kings and Princes sent into exile in Babylon sure thought Zekey was a false prophet,not. BTW, the Jews were also in babylon at the time and accused Zekey of being a false prophet, just like you are doing today :wave: Oh, that's right, the prophecy failed because it was mainly about the walls and streets of Tyre not the relgious,political, and economic system that was ruling there at the time of Zekey (MES syndrome).

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