Johnny Skeptic

What was proof of Israel for Abraham that fulfilled Genesis 17:8?

What about the partition of Palestine in 1948 fulfilled Genesis 17:8?

Even if God is able to predict the future, there is not a necessary correlation between power an good character.

There is no doubt that God does not want people to believe that he is able to predict the future. If he did, he would have told Ezekiel about Alexander. Since God refused to tell Ezekiel about Alexander, generations of Jews who expected God to defeat Tyre died wondering what went wrong. In addition, generations of Tyrians died confident that the Tyre prophecy had failed.

Johnny Skeptic

At the risk of being accused of being logical, Genesis 17:8, which is the foundational basis for all subsequent scriptures that deal with the occupation of Canaan, refers to THIS life, NOT to an AFTERLIFE. Genesis 17:8 says that God would give Abraham and his descendants ALL of the land of Canaan as an EVERLASTING covenant. The partition of Palestine failed on both counts. Are you actually saying that Abraham and most other Jews believed that Jews would never occupy all of the land of Canaan as an everlasting covenant in this life? God's protection of Jews conditional upon good behavior most certainly DOES NOT refer to an afterlife where everyone has good behavior. Why must you embarrass yourself by making jokes?

Now will you please tell us how any of Genesis 17:8 has been fulfilled?

spin

That's called assuming your conclusion. It's just another unfulfilled prophecy that you delude yourself about.

You've already said, "Israel never obtained all of the Promised Land (from Egypt to the Euphrates River) due to disobience thus the prophecy is set for a future time." Unfulfilled prophecy makes your conclusion transparently fraudulent.


spin

Johnny Skeptic

Where did the Jews belong when they were held captive in Egypt for generations and were mistreated by Pharoah, including innocent Jewish babies? The correct answer is, somewhere else.

Where did the Jews belong when Trajan killed 500,000 Jews in early part of the second century? The correct answer is, somewhere else.

Where do Christians belong when God injures and kills them with hurricanes? The correct answer is, somewhere else.

How would you have distributed land in Palestine?

If it had been Palestianians who had been persecuted by Hitler and other parties instead of Jews, how would you have distributed land in Palestine?

arnoldo

The fact that Israel is once again a concern to all the nations on earth, for various reasons, is itself a fulfilment of many bible prophecies.

Sheshonq

Restating your original unproven claim is just a broken record.

When you have proof, then you'll be saying something new.

Johnny Skeptic

That is patently false. All debates must by necessity begin with Genesis
17:8, which is the foundational basis for all subsequent scriptures that deal with the occupation of Canaan. Genesis 17:8 says that God would give Abraham and his descendants ALL of the land of Canaan as an EVERLASTING covenant. The partition of Palestine failed on both counts. Are you actually saying that Abraham and most other Jews believed that Jews would never occupy all of the land of Canaan as an everlasting covenant in this life? God's protection of Jews conditional upon good behavior most certainly DOES NOT refer to an afterlife, as you falsely claimed, especially since in the afterlife, all Jews will always have good behavior. Why must you embarrass yourself by making jokes?

Now will you please tell us how any of Genesis 17:8 has been fulfilled?

The predictions that the Jews would be scattered were not predictions at all. They were made AFTER THE FACT, meaning that those supposed predictions were made after the Jews had already been kicked out of Canaan.

If prophecy is more of a sign to believers rather than unbelievers, how do you believe Old Testament Jews interpreted Genesis 17:8?

If prophecy is more of a sign to believers rather than unbelievers, why didn't Ezekiel mention Alexander? As it was, even though Ezekiel claimed that no less than a "king of kings" (Nebuchadnezzar), which surely indicates the expectation that the "king of kings" would defeat Tyre, would come "from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people," and would "slay with the sword thy daughters in the field: and he shall make a fort against thee, and cast a mount against thee, and lift up the buckler against thee," and "shall set engines of war against thy walls, and with his axes he shall break down thy towers," and "by reason of the abundance of his horses their dust shall cover thee: thy walls shall shake at the noise of the horsemen, and of the wheels, and of the chariots, when he shall enter into thy gates, as men enter into a city wherein is made a breach," and "With the hoofs of his horses shall he tread down all thy streets: he shall slay thy people by the sword, and thy strong garrisons shall go down to the ground," contrary to Ezekiel's expectations, Nebuchadnezzar was unable to defeat Tyre. Then, Ezekiel, or someone else, chose to cover up the fraud by adding the "many nations" part of Ezekiel 26, and the false claim in Ezekiel 29 that God would give Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar as a compensation for his failure to defeat Tyre.

Another cover up occurred regarding Genesis 17:8. Contrary to what the writer of Genesis 17:8 expected, the Jews were kicked out of Canaan. That is when the supposed predictions about the scattering of Jews were written AFTER THE FACT, which obviously were not predictions at all, but observations after the fact that were disguised as prophecies.

It is utter nonsense for Christians to believe that God would tell Abraham that he would give him and all of his descendants all of the land of Canaan as an everlasting covenant conditional upon good behavior when he knew that even 4,000 years later, Jews would not have occupied all of the land of Canaan as an everlasting convenant, thereby giving generations of Jews false hopes, and causing them to wonder what it would take to please God, and causing them to wonder what percentage of Jews acting right it would take to please God, and causing them to wonder why God would punish their babies for their own disobedience.

The Bible has so many lies and deceptions in it that it is a wonder that anyone believes it who has been presented with evidence like the evidence that is available at the IIDB. If all children were presented equally with evidence from both sides, there is no doubt whatsover that the Christian church would be much small than it is today.

Even if God can predict the future, so what? If Bill Clinton could predict the future, you certainly would not worship him. You also certainly would not worship him if he indiscriminately injured and killed people and innocent animals with hurricanes like God does.

Anyway, it is obvious that God does not want people to hear the Gospel message since millions of people died without hearing it because he refused to tell them about it, and with no possible benefits for himself or for anyone else.

By the way, it is quick and easy for me to cut and paste previous arguments that I have used, and I will repost them a thousand times if necessary unless you reply to them. Every time you come with a new argument, I easily refute it, and you jump to another argument, which I also easy refute, and so on.

Johnny Skeptic

Message to arnoldo: What did Abraham believe about Genesis 17:8?

arnoldo

There is no argument that Israel is a nation in existence today and that all nations on earth are concerned about what happens in Israel as well as the Middle East, exactly as the prophets foretold.

Johnny Skeptic

But what did Abraham believe about God's promise to give him and his descendants all of the land of Palestine as as everlasting convenant?