Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 05-23-2010, 04:03 PM

Science vs. Zealots, 1,500 Years Ago

Some comments on the historical license:

Quote:

...

The film also glosses over some of the distinctions between the library and museum of Alexandria, founded in the third century B.C., and what befell them afterward. Roman-era chronicles, as well as later works, suggest that at least part of the library was destroyed when Julius Caesar invaded Egypt in 48 B.C., and that Christians were responsible only for the damage done in Hypatia’s time to a secondary “daughter library,” which may also have been attacked by Muslim conquerors in the seventh century A.D.

“There is always license,” Mr. Amenábar said when asked about his focus on Christian depredations. “But in comparison to cinema today, we tried to be very rigorous and faithful to reality.”

In Europe, where “Agora” was released last year and became the box office champion of 2009 in Spain, that portrayal of Christian zealotry has provoked controversy. Hoping to head off trouble with the Vatican, the film’s Italian distributor, for example, invited Roman Catholic clergy members to an advance screening but described their reaction as “all on edge.” And fearing attacks on its Coptic Christian minority, Egypt has restricted showings of “Agora” there, according to news reports.

“Fundamentally, this is a very Christian film about the life of a martyr,” Mr. Amenábar said. “It denounces intolerance and pays homage to those voices that favor serenity and dialogue. Jesus would not have approved of what happened to Hypatia, which is why I say no good Christian should feel offended by this film.”

Toto · 05-23-2010, 04:09 PM

Justin Pollard was a historical consultant.

The Rise and Fall of Alexandria: Birthplace of the Modern Mind (or via: amazon.co.uk) by Justin Pollard and Howard Reid

rcscwc · 05-23-2010, 06:46 PM

Murder of Hypatia plunged the west into dark ages. It took centuries before it could overcome.

Cyril who was chief lynchpin, was later made a saint!! Wonder what satans are!!!

mountainman · 05-23-2010, 06:48 PM

The generally suspected murderer of Hypatia, the voluminous christian author and "High Christologist "Cyril of Alexandria", nephew of the dreaded fascist "Uncle Theophilus", also attracted the title "seal of the fathers" for his splendidly successful refutation and censorship of the three books Emperor Julian wrote "Against the Christians".

Up until the time of Cyril, the authority of the church was overshadowed with references to The Three Hundred and Eighteen Nicaean Fathers of the Church. Cyril started to divert the authority away from these 318 and to employ the "Early Christian Fathers" who had been deployed by Eusebius in his wonderful transcendental narrative of the Pre-Nicaean Church. People like "Father Tertullian", and "Father Justin". Utterly unknown nobodies.

rcscwc · 05-23-2010, 07:03 PM

Might as well add murder of Hypatia to his achievements.

Clivedurdle · 05-24-2010, 02:18 PM

Wiki is fascinating about Cyril

Quote:

Theology

Cyril regarded the embodiment of God in the person of Jesus Christ to be so mystically powerful that it spread out from the body of the God-man into the rest of the race, to reconstitute human nature into a graced and deified condition of the saints, one that promised immortality and transfiguration to believers.

Nestorius, on the other hand, saw the incarnation as primarily a moral and ethical example to the faithful, to follow in the footsteps of Jesus. Cyril's constant stress was on the simple idea that it was God who walked the streets of Nazareth (hence Mary was Theotokos (Mother of God)), and God who had appeared in a transfigured humanity.

Nestorius spoke of the distinct 'Jesus the man' and 'the divine Logos' in ways that Cyril thought were too dichotomous, widening the ontological gap between man and God in a way that would annihilate the person of Christ.

The main issue that prompted this dispute between Cyril and Nestorius was the question which arose at the Council of Constantinople: What exactly was the being to which Mary gave birth?

Cyril posited that the composition of the Trinity consisted of one divine essence (ousia) in three distinct realities (hypostases.) These distinct realities were the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Before the Son became flesh in Mary's womb, Cyril asserted that there existed two natures of the Son—one divine nature and one human nature.

Then, when the Son became flesh and entered into the world, these two divine and human natures both remained but became united in the person of Jesus. This resulted in the slogan "One Nature united out of two" being used to encapsulate the theological position of this Alexandrian bishop.

According to Cyril's theology, there were two states for the Son: the state that existed prior to the Son (or Word/Logos) becoming enfleshed in the person of Jesus and the state that actually became enfleshed.

Thus, only the Logos incarnate suffered and died on the Cross and therefore the Son was able to suffer without suffering. Cyril's concern was that there needed to be continuity of the divine subject between the Logos and the incarnate Word—and so in Jesus Christ the divine Logos was really present in the flesh and in the world.

Pull the other one, it has got bells on it! Even Cyril did not believe in an hj - his Jesus was human before he was born, and was able to suffer without suffering/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_of_Alexandria

Joan of Bark · 05-27-2010, 05:52 AM

Whether historically accurate or not, I found the film entertaining and would recommend it for that reason alone. And anything that pisses off the Spanish Catholic Religious Anti-Defamation Observatory is worth supporting.

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05-23-2010, 04:09 PM	#2
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Justin Pollard was a historical consultant. The Rise and Fall of Alexandria: Birthplace of the Modern Mind (or via: amazon.co.uk) by Justin Pollard and Howard Reid

05-23-2010, 06:46 PM	#3
rcscwc Banned Join Date: May 2008 Location: New Delhi, India. 011-26142556 Posts: 2,292	Murder of Hypatia plunged the west into dark ages. It took centuries before it could overcome. Cyril who was chief lynchpin, was later made a saint!! Wonder what satans are!!!

05-23-2010, 06:48 PM	#4
mountainman Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Falls Creek, Oz. Posts: 11,192	The generally suspected murderer of Hypatia, the voluminous christian author and "High Christologist "Cyril of Alexandria", nephew of the dreaded fascist "Uncle Theophilus", also attracted the title "seal of the fathers" for his splendidly successful refutation and censorship of the three books Emperor Julian wrote "Against the Christians". Up until the time of Cyril, the authority of the church was overshadowed with references to The Three Hundred and Eighteen Nicaean Fathers of the Church. Cyril started to divert the authority away from these 318 and to employ the "Early Christian Fathers" who had been deployed by Eusebius in his wonderful transcendental narrative of the Pre-Nicaean Church. People like "Father Tertullian", and "Father Justin". Utterly unknown nobodies.

05-23-2010, 07:03 PM	#5
rcscwc Banned Join Date: May 2008 Location: New Delhi, India. 011-26142556 Posts: 2,292	Might as well add murder of Hypatia to his achievements.

05-27-2010, 05:52 AM	#7
Joan of Bark Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pua, in northern Thailand Posts: 2,823	Whether historically accurate or not, I found the film entertaining and would recommend it for that reason alone. And anything that pisses off the Spanish Catholic Religious Anti-Defamation Observatory is worth supporting.

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