Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Joe Bloe · 03-20-2006, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidfromTexas

So are you one of those "softer and gentler" lukewarm types?

Have you not read the scriptures?

Read the sermon of Stephen, the sermons of the apostle Paul, and the sermons of Jesus, particularly in John 6-8.

There is a time and place for everything, including boldness.

...

Insult and degrade?

Jesus never insulted anyone, correct?

The apostle Paul never said a word that upset anyone, correct?

The disciples were like teddy bears, correct?

Hogwash.

Keep it up, Dave. You are doing a much better job of turning people off to Christianity than an "evangelistic atheist" ever could. If Christianity turns people into <edit> you, it's not anything I would want any part of. You could learn a lot from Phlox.

Loomis · 03-20-2006, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phlox Pyros

Here's my question.... Why do you want to deconvert Christians?

It’s like finding a wallet in the parking lot with $400.00 in it. You either keep it for yourself or you give it back.

Joe Bloe · 03-20-2006, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidfromTexas

How can a non-believer understand the Bible better than a believer?

By reading what it actually says rather than filtering it through one or another particular set of denominational doctrines and dogmas and pretending that whatever is in the Bible must agree with the believer's particular church.

Loomis · 03-20-2006, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joan of Bark

I don't know if anyone has started a thread like this before, but here goes:

I am a firm believer in using the Bible to deconvert Christians. It is my feeling that if all Christians actually READ the Bible (and not just the parts they get spoon fed on Sunday morning), many of them would either chuck Christianity completely or at least allow a germ of doubt to enter their consciousness'. Since BC&H is filled with people who HAVE read the 'Good Book', I think a survey is in order to help settle the question:

Read this thread:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...253post3257253

What do you think is going to happen?

How will it end?

Loomis · 03-20-2006, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loomis

Read this thread:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...253post3257253

What do you think is going to happen?

How will it end?

Here.

Here it is.

I will answer my own question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phlox Pyros

There is no reason to respond further to those who seem to be looking for contradictions.

Joe Bloe · 03-20-2006, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidfromTexas

Yeah... the big IF, correct?

The problem is, you have made the word "IF" into "when". Read the verse over again, and place the word "when" in the place of "if"... The meaning is essentially the same according to your interpretation.

For a brief answer regarding this passage... http://www.gotquestions.org/Hebrews-6.html

For a more indepth understanding... http://www.soundofgrace.com/piper96/10-13-96.htm

How about a page showing how "once saved always saved" is refuted by scripture? Google the phrase "once saved always saved" and you'll find plenty more disagreeing with the doctrine, as well as lots of stuff defending it.

Tell you what, Dave, when you Christians figure out and agree on what your guidebook really says, come back and let us know what it means. Until then, why should I listen to your "godly foolishness" rather than someone else's foolishness that disagrees with you?

As for whether non-believers can understand the Bible better than believers, from the looks of things given all the disagreements among believers I don't see how we could do any worse.

DavidfromTexas · 03-20-2006, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Bloe

Keep it up, Dave. You are doing a much better job of turning people off to Christianity than an "evangelistic atheist" ever could.

"Turning people on" to Christianity is not something that any human can do.

"Turning people off" to Christianity is impossible to do for those of the elect. "Turning people off" to Christianity who are not of the elect was already done LONG ago... In fact, mankind is born spiritually dead in sin, and therfore cannot be "turned off" to anything spiritually because they are already dead.

Quote:

If Christianity turns people into <edit> you, it's not anything I would want any part of.

Why thank you.

Quote:

You could learn a lot from Phlox.

I already have...

DavidfromTexas · 03-20-2006, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Bloe

By reading what it actually says rather than filtering it through one or another particular set of denominational doctrines and dogmas and pretending that whatever is in the Bible must agree with the believer's particular church.

Have you not read the scriptures?

Quote:

But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

(2 Timothy 3:14-17)

"Reading what it actually says" implies a reading though some sort of filter. What one person sees the Bible as "saying" this or that, another person sees something completely different. Therefore, YOU are not the one that establishes sound doctrine. Rather, the Holy Spirit guides His elect into all truth.

DavidfromTexas · 03-20-2006, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Bloe

How about a page showing how "once saved always saved" is refuted by scripture? Google the phrase "once saved always saved" and you'll find plenty more disagreeing with the doctrine, as well as lots of stuff defending it.

Have you examined their argument? Have you weighed the evidence that is presented?

Quote:

Tell you what, Dave, when you Christians figure out and agree on what your guidebook really says,

Christians are united in truth. There is no disunity in sound doctrine.

Quote:

come back and let us know what it means.

I am already here... Are you prepared to listen?

Quote:

Until then, why should I listen to your "godly foolishness" rather than someone else's foolishness that disagrees with you?

Weigh the arguments...

Quote:

As for whether non-believers can understand the Bible better than believers, from the looks of things given all the disagreements among believers I don't see how we could do any worse.

Believers are united in truth. If you do not believe the truth, then you are not capable of understanding it.

No Robots · 03-20-2006, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidfromTexas

"Turning people on" to Christianity is not something that any human can do.

Wrong. After all, if you're right, why preach?

View Poll Results: Should the Bible be used to deconvert Christians?
Yes, I believe it works.	83	82.18%
No, it won't help.	9	8.91%
Not sure.	9	8.91%
Voters: 101. You may not vote on this poll

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