Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ben C Smith · 09-10-2007, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog-on

The body of the resurrected Christ is the church.

Right?

Sure. But is Paul speaking literally or metaphorically?

Ben.

Ray Moscow · 09-10-2007, 08:50 AM

If we take out the 1 Corith 15 passage, which as some have pointed out could well be an interpolation anyway, what do we have in Paul to point to any physical resurrection?

Perhaps these metaphorical references are his entire approach on the subject. The Christian is "resurrected" through baptism and perhaps other transformative rituals or experiences, and that's it.

I have to think about how this fits (or not) with 1 Thess 4:14-17:

Quote:

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Ray

dog-on · 09-10-2007, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben C Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog-on

The body of the resurrected Christ is the church.

Right?

Sure. But is Paul speaking literally or metaphorically?

Ben.

You tell me. Maybe it depends on what one has vested in the answer?

Regardless, he seems more concerned with the body-of-Christ as the church than he ever seems to be with whatever type of "flesh" may have emerged from the tomb...

Clivedurdle · 09-10-2007, 09:21 AM

Literally.

Look at classic church structure - for example Florence. Baptistry where you begin your new life. Main body of the church where you partake of the body and blood of Christ and live your new life as part of the body of Christ.

Tower - (Pisa) where you move finally to the new heaven and earth. This brings together all the stuff about second coming and bride of Christ in revelation.

Paul had a vision of not only spirits going to heaven but special bodies. His Christ is the firstfruit, we can follow by believing. We can practice this new life in the body of Christ - the church, until the second coming.

It unravelled when people started dying but it was a pretty impressive attempt to get gods and men together!

It makes sense of why such huge percentages of the economy were spent on the most superb and expensive church buildings.

Might it be understood as an attempt to reach the stars?

Chili · 09-10-2007, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog-on

[How "Gnostic" of him...

So are we looking at some sort of phantasmal resurrection, in Paul?

No, not phantasmal but real or he would not be gnostic . . . of which truth is the evidence that you call him gnostic. But you are right, who am I to judge this.

Chili · 09-10-2007, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog-on

The body of the resurrected Christ is the church.

Right?

The resurrected Christ is free from religion and will never be the Church that Jesus had in mind. Churches are for sinners and not for Christians or even Jesuits.

Just go to Gal.5:1-4 and read all about it.

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09-10-2007, 09:21 AM	#64
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Literally. Look at classic church structure - for example Florence. Baptistry where you begin your new life. Main body of the church where you partake of the body and blood of Christ and live your new life as part of the body of Christ. Tower - (Pisa) where you move finally to the new heaven and earth. This brings together all the stuff about second coming and bride of Christ in revelation. Paul had a vision of not only spirits going to heaven but special bodies. His Christ is the firstfruit, we can follow by believing. We can practice this new life in the body of Christ - the church, until the second coming. It unravelled when people started dying but it was a pretty impressive attempt to get gods and men together! It makes sense of why such huge percentages of the economy were spent on the most superb and expensive church buildings. Might it be understood as an attempt to reach the stars?

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