Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Vorkosigan · 12-28-2005, 08:45 PM

Looks like fun! I'm looking forward to a complete GPeter and Egerton.

Chris Weimer · 12-28-2005, 09:00 PM

Oh, a complete Egerton would be wonderful! Especially if it can be found to not be reliant on the canonical ones, but a separate Johannine tradition. And of course, I always have my fingers crossed for a Gospel of Peter.

Roger Pearse · 12-29-2005, 01:20 AM

I'm hoping for some more lost patristic works. I wrote to them again last night, and will let people know if anyone responds.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Toto · 01-13-2006, 11:23 AM

I have merged three threads to add this update:

Forbidden Gospel 'will show Judas was acting for God'

Quote:

. . .

Although the full details have not yet been made public, snippets discussed in academic circles say it will prove Judas was acting at the behest of God when he sold Jesus to the Romans for 30 pieces of silver.

Its publication will raise fears among traditionalists that efforts may be made to rehabilitate a man whose name is synonymous with betrayal.

. . .

The translator of the Gospel of Judas is Rodolphe Kasser of the University of Geneva, the world's leading Coptic scholar. The torn and tattered papyrus text had been offered to potential buyers in North America and Europe for decades after it was found at al-Minya in Egypt.

. . .

Controversy also surrounds the origins of the text, which dates from the fourth century, with some scholars arguing that it was not written by Judas, but by a group of his supporters.

I'm willing to bet that most scholars would endorse that last idea.

And in a related move:

Judas the Misunderstood: Vatican moves to clear reviled disciple’s name

Quote:

The proposed “rehabilitation�? of the man who was paid 30 pieces of silver to identify Jesus to Roman soldiers in the Garden of Gethsemane, comes on the ground that he was not deliberately evil, but was just “fulfilling his part in God’s plan�?.

Christians have traditionally blamed Judas for aiding and abetting the Crucifixion, and his name is synonymous with treachery. According to St Luke, Judas was “possessed by Satan�?.

Now, a campaign led by Monsignor Walter Brandmuller, head of the Pontifical Committee for Historical Science, is aimed at persuading believers to look kindly at a man reviled for 2,000 years.

....

Signor Messori said that the rehabilitation of Judas would “resolve the problem of an apparent lack of mercy by Jesus toward one of his closest collaborators�?.

He told La Stampa that there was a Christian tradition that held that Judas was forgiven by Jesus and ordered to purify himself with “spiritual exercises�? in the desert.

Christianity Today's weblog cites Stephen Carlson's blog in regard to "Da Vinci style silliness" regarding this manuscript.

Chris Weimer · 01-13-2006, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

I'm hoping for some more lost patristic works. I wrote to them again last night, and will let people know if anyone responds.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

A complete Origen would be nice, however unlikely.

Baal · 01-13-2006, 04:49 PM

This is all based on the assumption that God already has things planned out. In that case, why don't we just think kindly towards other criminals, too? Al-Qaeda did, after all, improve security (from a point of view). I find this kind of thinking flawed.

Gabe the Angel · 01-14-2006, 01:20 AM

Unless I have got the wrong end of the stick (or scroll) the introduction of this into a re-print of the Bible will lean even further towards the thinking of the entire subject being a "story" in the full sense of the word. This could be a blessing in disguise for all of us, the word of God will be promoted as being from other people long after the alleged event of 2000 years ago. Its just like a film with a sequel and a new director, Jaws was a good film but Jaws 2 was a let down.

Roger Pearse · 01-14-2006, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

A complete Origen would be nice, however unlikely.

We're not likely to find such a huge volume in one go. What would be nice is Pamphilus "Apology for Origen." We have only Rufinus' translation of book 1. But Eusebius of Caesarea completed the work, and added a list of all known works of Origen.

The damnatio memoriae of Origen in the Byzantine world still works, by the way. I had someone write to me a couple of days ago about my collection of early fathers (which is really a collection of ecclesiastical and other texts) and say that Origen was not a father.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Gabe the Angel · 01-14-2006, 01:38 AM

Just think about what you could bring up next, Mary was raped and made the whole thing up, Moses was a stone mason not a shepard, the parting of the sea was just another Tsunami and The garden of eden was an advert for a holiday theme park.

The new version of The Lord of the Rings will be re-printed as Gollom will be shown to be the good guy who got rid of the ring and not the bad guy who bit off Frodos finger and set him up with Shelob. Did JRT have an insite to the new Judas story, it sounds like it.

Toto · 01-16-2006, 12:33 PM

Ready to Rethink the Fink?

01-14-2006, 01:20 AM	#27
Gabe the Angel Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: England Posts: 436	My penny worth or 30 pieces of silver Unless I have got the wrong end of the stick (or scroll) the introduction of this into a re-print of the Bible will lean even further towards the thinking of the entire subject being a "story" in the full sense of the word. This could be a blessing in disguise for all of us, the word of God will be promoted as being from other people long after the alleged event of 2000 years ago. Its just like a film with a sequel and a new director, Jaws was a good film but Jaws 2 was a let down.

01-14-2006, 01:38 AM	#29
Gabe the Angel Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: England Posts: 436	What next? Just think about what you could bring up next, Mary was raped and made the whole thing up, Moses was a stone mason not a shepard, the parting of the sea was just another Tsunami and The garden of eden was an advert for a holiday theme park. The new version of The Lord of the Rings will be re-printed as Gollom will be shown to be the good guy who got rid of the ring and not the bad guy who bit off Frodos finger and set him up with Shelob. Did JRT have an insite to the new Judas story, it sounds like it.

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12-28-2005, 08:45 PM	#21
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	Looks like fun! I'm looking forward to a complete GPeter and Egerton.

12-28-2005, 09:00 PM	#22
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	Oh, a complete Egerton would be wonderful! Especially if it can be found to not be reliant on the canonical ones, but a separate Johannine tradition. And of course, I always have my fingers crossed for a Gospel of Peter.

12-29-2005, 01:20 AM	#23
Roger Pearse Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: N/A Posts: 4,370	I'm hoping for some more lost patristic works. I wrote to them again last night, and will let people know if anyone responds. All the best, Roger Pearse

01-13-2006, 04:49 PM	#26
Baal Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Huh? Posts: 62	This is all based on the assumption that God already has things planned out. In that case, why don't we just think kindly towards other criminals, too? Al-Qaeda did, after all, improve security (from a point of view). I find this kind of thinking flawed.

01-16-2006, 12:33 PM	#30
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Ready to Rethink the Fink?

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