Freethought & Rationalism Archive

JonA · 04-11-2012, 05:15 PM

Just got this book; though I made Mr. Doherty a promise that I would not be buying his books.

Wish I had kept my promise. The first two paragraphs into the introduction:

[HR="1"]100[/HR]
Earl Doherty in The Jesus Puzzle (2005):

Once upon a time, someone wrote a story about a man who was God.

We don't know who that someone was, or where he wrote his story. We are not even sure when he wrote it, but we do know that several decades had passed since the supposed events he told of. Later generations gave this storyteller the name of "Mark," but if that was his real name, it was only by coincidence. (p. 1)

[HR="1"]100[/HR]

I guess I don't read my gospels as closely as I should. I might be wrong—I'm serious about this, I really could be wrong—but I just can't find the part in Mark's gospel where he calls Jesus 'God'.

Am I missing something?

Jon

aa5874 · 04-11-2012, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonA

I guess I don't read my gospels as closely as I should. I might be wrong—I'm serious about this, I really could be wrong—but I just can't find the part in Mark's gospel where he calls Jesus 'God'.

Am I missing something?

Jon

Please tell me what you would call Jesus if he was ACTUALLY the Son of God??

You would call him the Son of God.

The Son of a God is a God by mere logical implications.

Now, If the author of gMark claimed Jesus was the ACTUAL Son of God what should have been written in the following passages???

Mark 1:1 KJV

Quote:

The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God

If the author of gMark implied Jesus was the ACTUAL Son of God what should have been written.

Mark 3:11 KJV

Quote:

And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried , saying , Thou art the Son of God.

Mark 5:7 KJV

Quote:

And cried with a loud voice, and said , What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

Mark 15:39 KJV

Quote:

And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out , and gave up the ghost , he said , Truly this man was the Son of God.

Mark 14

Quote:

Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? 62And Jesus said , I am...

gMark's Jesus was described as the Son of God by characters in the gMark Jesus story.

Toto · 04-11-2012, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonA

Just got this book; though I made Mr. Doherty a promise that I would not be buying his books.

I guess I don't read my gospels as closely as I should. I might be wrong—I'm serious about this, I really could be wrong—but I just can't find the part in Mark's gospel where he calls Jesus 'God'.

Am I missing something?

Jon

Does Mark have to call Jesus "God" to write about "a man who was God" ?

Would it have been better to say that Mark wrote about a man who was supernatural?

JonA · 04-11-2012, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Does Mark have to call Jesus "God" to write about "a man who was God" ?

Or Jesus has to actually be God.

I guess Earl can take his pick.

Quote:

Would it have been better to say that Mark wrote about a man who was supernatural?

Sure. Why would there be any problem with him saying something that's true?

stephan huller · 04-11-2012, 06:34 PM

Why do we have to be mean to each other? You might not like his book. But can't we at least show respect to a fellow participant at this board? I try and reserve my contempt for people who say what I consider to be completely idiotic and untenable positions. You may not agree that Jesus was God, but since there were people who did in antiquity it isn't a stupid POV. In the same way I don't agree with people who think that Jesus was a real person but since there were people with this opinion in antiquity I can't insult that position or people who argue on behalf of it.

aa5874 · 04-11-2012, 06:49 PM

In Mythology the Sons of Jupiter are considered Gods and are no different to gMark's Jesus that is the Son of the Myth God of the Jews.

gMark was written when the Greeks and Romans believed in Myth Gods and their Myth Sons.

It would appear gMark's Jesus the Son of God was GOBBLED up by Myth Believers and was given a DIVINE MYTH Birth by later writers.

Again in gMark, the supposed Jesus implies he is the Son of God.

Mark 13:32 KJV

Quote:

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

LegionOnomaMoi · 04-11-2012, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Would it have been better to say that Mark wrote about a man who was supernatural?

If by "better" you mean accurate than yes.

aa5874 · 04-11-2012, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Does Mark have to call Jesus "God" to write about "a man who was God" ?

Or Jesus has to actually be God.

I guess Earl can take his pick.

Quote:

Would it have been better to say that Mark wrote about a man who was supernatural?

Sure. Why would there be any problem with him saying something that's true?

The claim in gMark that Jesus was the Son of God was just as plausible and believable as claiming Jesus was born of a virgin without a human father which is PRECISELY why it was so claimed.

People of antiquity did believe in Myth Gods and Sons of Gods.

First Apology 21

Quote:

.... we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter.

For you know how many sons your esteemed writers ascribed to Jupiter:

Mercury, the interpreting word and teacher of all;

AEsculapius, who, though he was a great physician, was struck by a thunderbolt, and so ascended to heaven;

and Bacchus too, after he had been torn limb from limb;

and Hercules, when he had committed himself to the flames to escape his toils....

The author of gMark merely ASCRIBED a Son to the God of the Jews and it was BELIEVED.

jdl · 04-11-2012, 07:11 PM

Doherty was obviously trying to be poetic when he wrote that. Way to turn a literary flourish you found in the introduction into evidence that he's a horrible scholar. I can only imagine the storm that will ensue when you discover an actual error.

aa5874 · 04-11-2012, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LegionOnomaMoi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Would it have been better to say that Mark wrote about a man who was supernatural?

If by "better" you mean accurate than yes.

No, No, No!!!! You have Imagined your OWN story. gMark's Jesus story is in gMark NOT in your imagination.

Read the gMark story first.

Again, you show a lack of knowledge of the Belief of the Jesus cult. They did NOT worship men as Gods.

That is the most fundamental belief in the Jesus cult. Please read Apologetic sources that Identified the Human Jesus with a human father as a FALSEHOOD.

The author of gMatthew after having used gMark DECLARED Jesus was the Son of a Holy Ghost. Apologetic sources DENOUNCED any claim that Jesus was human and the author of gMark MADE SURE that he wrote Jesus did Acts that were NOT humanly possible.

The author made sure it was stated Jesus was witnessed as he WALKED on water and transfigured,

If gMark's Jesus was NOT Divine there would be no need for a QUEST for an historical Jesus.

Mark 15:39 KJV

Quote:

And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out , and gave up the ghost , he said , Truly this man was the Son of God.

gMark's Jesus was the Son of God and did NOT have real human flesh.

gMark's Jesus was a PHANTOM.

Mark 6

Quote:

.....out the fourth watch of the night he cometh unto them, walking upon the sea, and would have passed by them.49But when they saw him walking upon the sea, they supposed it had been a spirit, and cried out : 50For they all saw him, and were troubled . And immediately he talked with them, and saith unto them, Be of good cheer : it is I; be not afraid .

gMark's Jesus could NOT have been a man in the story.

04-11-2012, 05:15 PM	#1
JonA Regular Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Minnesota! Posts: 386	The Jesus Puzzle Just got this book; though I made Mr. Doherty a promise that I would not be buying his books. Wish I had kept my promise. The first two paragraphs into the introduction: [HR="1"]100[/HR] Earl Doherty in The Jesus Puzzle (2005): Once upon a time, someone wrote a story about a man who was God. We don't know who that someone was, or where he wrote his story. We are not even sure when he wrote it, but we do know that several decades had passed since the supposed events he told of. Later generations gave this storyteller the name of "Mark," but if that was his real name, it was only by coincidence. (p. 1) [HR="1"]100[/HR] I guess I don't read my gospels as closely as I should. I might be wrong—I'm serious about this, I really could be wrong—but I just can't find the part in Mark's gospel where he calls Jesus 'God'. Am I missing something? Jon

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04-11-2012, 06:34 PM	#5
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Why do we have to be mean to each other? You might not like his book. But can't we at least show respect to a fellow participant at this board? I try and reserve my contempt for people who say what I consider to be completely idiotic and untenable positions. You may not agree that Jesus was God, but since there were people who did in antiquity it isn't a stupid POV. In the same way I don't agree with people who think that Jesus was a real person but since there were people with this opinion in antiquity I can't insult that position or people who argue on behalf of it.

04-11-2012, 07:11 PM	#9
jdl Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Auckland Posts: 85	Doherty was obviously trying to be poetic when he wrote that. Way to turn a literary flourish you found in the introduction into evidence that he's a horrible scholar. I can only imagine the storm that will ensue when you discover an actual error.

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