Lógos Sokratikós

Also, the bible might tell you God is good, but the bible tells me its god is vile, authoritarian and sadistic.

If you were looking for a maid and I handed over a certain person's self-written résumé, that said "the last job I had I tortured, killed and diced the kids then served it to their parents at dinner, after which I stabbed them to death for having eaten their own children... but I am the nicest darn human being you'll ever meet", what would you do?

Would you hire her?

The bible states this entity killed, tortured millions, pitted them against each other and gave them horrid rules of behavior (like Deuteronomy 21:18-21), but then says he is all loving. Isn't this analogous to the case of the maid's résumé?

Deus Ex

Would not an omni-benevolent God simply forgive everyone without an elaborate plan? If an omnipotent God hates evil, then why not just snap his fingers and do away with Satan and the fallen angels?

Will human beings have 'free will' in heaven? Will we not just begin sinning again?

If God can give people in heaven a 'new nature' that never sins, then why could he not have done this in the first place, here on Earth?

Circular reasoning: God is good because the Bible says so; we can trust the Bible because it is God's Word; we know the Bible is not misleading us because God is good. :Cheeky:

funinspace

Pretty much all the calvinists I have ran into (or can remember) have not used the words "we are the true church". Obviously, they think their doctrine is the appropriate interpretation. Interestingly, I haven't ran into one who would claim Christians of other sects are hell bound for not holding to their particular doctrine.

Chadley Krakka

Hmmm. if I am Christian, I would say that these people were far from innocent in the first place. They were wicked people who wanted Israel's destruction. God is the one who created life, and he is the one who has the right to take it. Read Job for a similar reference. It basically means there is nothing wrong for God to do anything since we are under him.

Like I said, it is all part of an elaborate plan, to show that God is really really so awesome and glorious in might blah blah. The Bible also says that God is a patient God who is slow in delivering his judgment.

This is indeed one laughable aspect of the nature of heaven and hell.

Day after day I lose more hope that it is possible for a Theist, not including Muslims due to their stricter laws, to realise the strangeness of the nature of their God. Christians for example, will just try to shake out of this question. Is it important to question this in the first place? What is important is how we live our lives now. We can place our worries and doubts upon God.

Or if there really is a coherent reply, it would be that often we humans do not open our eyes to comprehend the great plan that God has set out for us. God allowed these evils to take place, because then only humans are able to mature from suffering and grow compassion and love out of their hardships that the fall of A&E brought with it. This makes the alternate idea of just creating a perfect world that never sins even better.

Lógos Sokratikós

You didn't read my Deuteronomy link, did you?

God may have the right (which boils down to "God can be as wicked as he wants to") but that does not exclude his rules to be dumb, unnecessary and so wrong, even Jesus and modern rabbis have changed them!

figuer

Message to Chadley Krakka: Your experimental/devil's advocate Christian apologetics have a major flaw regarding the subject of this thread - they have nothing to do with the Calvinist position. In Calvinism everything happens because of the will and desire of god (hence no free will for men, or personal responsibility for sins etc.). Calvinist may claim that these things are "compatible" but they err. They are simply mistaking the ability to write a wrong equation (e. 4+3=9), with it being true. Thus they proclaim a cosmogony where free will is impossible, yet proclaim free will to exist.

Chadley Krakka

Actually they have everything to do with Calvinism - Both describes the nature of God. A Calvinist must insist that his God is still sovereign (all-powerful and all-knowing), and yet his intentions are for good (thus omnibenevolence) otherwise that would be no worthwhile god to worship.

Voice of reason

Exactly, this is one of the things that deconverted me.

Deus Ex

The Calvinist revision of John 3:16

God so loved the world that he made up his mind to damn the most of us. -Robert Ingersoll (1880)

Sabine Grant

That was just excellent, Deus Ex. You should start a thread on that specific.