Decypher

How about the Old Testament prophets were accurate, but Jesus was a false Messiah giving false prophecy which misused (genuine) Old Testament prophecy?

Decypher

Verses which suggest that all the events in Matthew 24 should have happened close together in time:

The "Son of Man" will come within the lifetime of those going from city to city to avoid persecution.

Decypher

I doubt this claim will hold true for everyone. Presumably it is possible that some who "believe the prophets" may be persuaded by argument that Jesus gave false prophecy.

But anyway, what should properly concern us is the truth of the issue, not whether "believers" can be persuaded by argument.

Decypher

And Sheshbazzar, are you really following what the Old Testament says? We are told that one criteria for whether someone speaks for God is whether their prophecies come true, (Deuteronomy 18:21-22). It doesn't say that if someone claims to speak for God we should simply have faith in them. Should we not judge Jesus on this criteria given to us by the Bible? Your attitude seems to be that argument about Matthew 24 could never persuade you that Jesus was a false prophet, and that attitude seems to go against the Bible.

Sheshbazzar

Back again to where we began this debate, We still maintain that contrary to the interpretation that you are employing, YAH'hoshua The Messiah DID NOT predict that His coming would take place within any certain time, other than that described by the saying "WHEN you shall see these things begin come to pass, THEN lift up your heads; for your redemption draws near." Again, He never predicted His second coming as preceding that time in which "the sun and moon are darkened, and the stars fall from heaven." that time period HAS NOT elapsed, because these predicted dramatic "end time" events have not yet taken place.
If the Old Testament Prophets were accurate, and their prophecies were "true", and had "came to pass" at any time prior to this present day, All wars and rebellion would have ceased, all men would now acknowledge and worship only YHWH The Holy One of Israel,
The Messiah which they also clearly predict would now rule over all nations,
and every nation formerly the enemy of His people Israel, would be going up to Jerusalem from year to year to keep The Feast of Tabernacles, honoring Him, His Prophets, His people Israel, and His Messiah, and obeying His Laws.
Therefore in as much as NONE of these prophecies has been fulfilled, nor "came to pass", regardless of whether YAH'hoshua The Messiah "was a false messiah giving false prophecy", your query as stated above presents an impossible option.
If they actually "believe the prophets" then they must agree to the premise that the things the Prophets prophesied must "come to pass", otherwise their "belief" is but a sham.
If they say that all that the Prophets have prophesied has already "came to pass" then it is upon their shoulders to prove the truth of such allegations;
That all wars have ceased, that all men now worship YHWH The Holy One of Israel, and His Messiah now rules over all men everywhere, and etcetera.
As I pointed out above, most of the greater prophecies appearing within "The Old Testament" still do remain unfulfilled, thus the conclusion only allows that prophecies that were given by YHWH, and by His prophets, either have failed, were false, or simply have not yet been fulfilled.
As skeptics and the unbelievers, you are entitled to hold the first two.
"Believers" however, cannot accept those premises, and still rightly nor honestly claim to believe His words, nor be believers.

Decypher

I never suggested that Old Testament prophecies had all "come to pass" in the world today! Where did you get that idea from? I only suggested the possible option that they were accurate, whereas Jesus was a false prophet. Would this not be a possible option?

Decypher

True, but there is no reason why they can't "believe the prophets" but then change their minds about it.

What?

Decypher

This doesn't seem to be a relevant reply to what was said. Let me quote it again:

Decypher

Jesus said, "when ye shall see all these things" to his disciples. But even if we ignore this, we still have every reason to believe that Jesus was talking about "this present generation". (An equivalent prediction made in Matthew 16:27-28, and a similar statement to Matthew 24:34 made in Matthew 23:36 which was clearly about the generation alive at that time.) And if that isn't enough (it should be) we know that the events described in Matthew 24 should have taken place close together in time, (Matthew 10:23). We know that one of the events was certainly in the first century -- the destruction of the second temple -- and so that is when all of the events should have taken place.

Sheshbazzar

I "got that idea" from you asking this question;
Perhaps it is incomprehensible to you, that "If the Old Testament prophets were accurate", then the things that they prophesied would be accurate and need to "come to pass", for otherwise they would NOT be accurate.
Appears that you cannot even comprehend the implications of your own words. And I am supposed to accept your reasoning?