rhutchin

What was the lie to which you are referring?

Did the midwives lie in stating that "...Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively,..."

Did the midwives lie in stating that "...[the Hebrew women] are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them."

It seems to me that one explanation is that the midwives did not attend to the Hebrew women until after the baby was born thereby allowing God to determine whether the baby would die in childbirth. It was their faith in God that led them to entrust the Hebrew women to God's care that resulted in the commendation from God.

However, maybe there is a lie here that you can explain.

Dean Anderson

It seems clear-cut to me.

Pharaoh tells the midwives to kill the male children.

The midwives explicitly disobey him and save the male children alive.

He asks them why they have done this.

They reply (falsely) that they were unable to kill the male children because the Hebrew women had them quickly before they could get there.

God blesses them for their dishonest behaviour.

The reply of the midwives is a lie because it contradicts the previous sentence which explicitly says that the midwives actively disobeyed Pharaoh and that they actively saved the male children - not that they couldn't get there in time and the male children escaped them.

Atheos

In fairness one could argue that Yahweh approved of the midwives' treatment of the male children (in sparing and saving their lives), not of the lying.

However, Yahweh often used and abetted liars according to biblical myths. Obviously Yahweh lied to Adam and Eve about dying "in the day that thou eatest thereof" regarding the forbidden fruit. Anyone without an apologetic agenda can see that Yahweh was being intentionally deceptive when he ordered Abraham to kill Isaac. Yahweh blessed Jacob after Jacob intentionally deceived an aging and blind Isaac into thinking he was Esau so he could steal the older brother's "birthright". Yahweh sanctioned Laban's treachery in deceiving Jacob and giving him Leah instead of Rachel for 7 years of labor. Yahweh told Moses he was going to kill all the Israelites and make a great nation out of Moses (but he didn't).

Yahweh purposefully raised up Ehud for the purpose of engaging in deception and assassination (of king Eglon) (Judges 3). Yahweh was credited with being the author of Jael's little deception ("Turn in to me, my lord, fear not") and using Jael in that way to kill Sisera (Judges 4).

As long as Samson lied about the source of his strength Yahweh blessed him with superhuman strength. Once he finally told Jezebel the truth about his strength he lost it all (Judges 16). Samson also set an example for those who want to inspire suicide bombers by committing suicide in order to kill 3000 Philistines.

ETA: My point in bring up all these other examples is that if the Midwives' lie was the only time Yahweh dealt favorably with someone who lied in order to accomplish "the greater good" (whatever that might be) one might chalk all this up to a concession possibly because they were Egyptian (and therefore outside the "favored people" umbrella anyway). But examples like this can be found throughout Yahweh's dealings with his people. Negotiating deceptively and abetting liars appears to be a trait of Yahweh.

Anat

And then there were the three instances of Patriarchs presenting their wives as their sisters:

Genesis 12:10-20 Abram and Sarai mispresent Sarai as his sister, Pharoah pays Abraham what might be seen as a bride-price for Sarai, God punishes Pharoah. Bottom line - Abram made a fortune by lying and the only people to suffer were Pharoah and his family, who had acted naively on the lie.

Genesis 20: Abraham and Sarah in Gerar. Same lie. This time it is more obvious how the beguilled king discovers the truth, and he pays Abraham only after returning Sarah. Meanwhile God had threatened Abimelech with death despite stating explicitly that he knew the latter had acted inocently, and also causes gynecological problems in Abimelech's household that are only relieved after Abraham the liar prays on behalf of Abimelech's household.

Genesis 26:6-11. Isaac repeats the same trick on Abimelech regarding Rebecca. This time the wife-abduction is prevented in time, but Abimelech is angry that some immorality might have taken place because of Isaac's lie. In the following verses (12-14) it is obvious Isaac is successful in his harvest and is blessed by God.

rhutchin

Again, what is the lie? The midwives told Pharaoh that the babies were already born by the time they arrived (Was this the lie?). The bablies were in their mothers arms at that time. Had the midwife arrived earlier, prior to birth, the midwife would have held the baby as it came from the womb and on seeing that the sex was male, the midwife could then carry the boy to the river to be drowned. The midwives clearly tell Pharaoh that they arrive after the baby is born and then do not have the ability to take the child from the mother and kill the boy babies. Pharaoh accepts this explanation, does he not?

It is true that the midwives are to be credited with saving the boy babies. However, they did not have to lie to explain what they were doing. They told Pharaoh the truth. The Hebrew women were quick to give birth (as was likely always the case) compared to Egyptian mothers and the midwives basically timed their appearance at the mother's side consistent with that which they were doing with the Egyptian mothers. By that time, the Israeli mother had already given birth. I do not see that there is a lie here or that there must be a lie.

Anat

The lie is implied by "But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive." The midwives did something to save the boys. It is implied they assisted at the births and let the boys live. Labor typically takes quite a few hours, though indeed in exceptional cases it can be short. On what basis would you think *all* Israelite women were medical exceptions?

rhutchin

I agree. The implication is that the midwives would have been present at birth and as the baby was delivered, they would determine whether it was a boy and immediately take a boy baby out to be drowned.

It is also implicit that the midwives had decided not to be present at the birth of the baby and purposely delayed their arrival until after the baby had been born when they would be unable to get access to the child.

The question at issue is whether the rationale given by the midwives is true. Did the Israeli women give birth in less time than Egyptian women? The midwives essentially seem to be telling Pharaoh that they were working according to union rules and in doing so, they were arriving after the Israeli women had already given birth. So, do we know whether *all* Israelite women were medical exceptions (compared to Egyptian women)? Should we automatically presume a lie? Women can give birth on their own and a midwife would be needed if their were complications. Maybe the midwives were saying that Israeli mothers did not have complications in giving birth that would extend the period of labor prior to the birth of the baby and require that a midwife be called.

Amaleq13

This is not implied in the passage at all but is arguably directly contradicted by the phrase "but saved the men children alive" which implies direct action on their part rather than the passive non-action you have read into the text.

Mesa Mike

It's not clear to me that God blessed the midwives for lying to Pharoah.
The text certainly isn't that explicit.
More likely, they were rewarded for disobeying Pharoah, and saving the babies.

rhutchin

What was this direct action?? When questioned by Pharaoh, the midwives say that the Hebrew women give birth before the midwife arrives. What direct action do you see the widwives taking to save the baby boys?