Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Malachi151 · 03-19-2004, 05:59 PM

While this is a quote from Marx, the ideas behind it are not purely his, they developed out of a larger historical study of early Christianity that took place in Germany during the Enlightenment. These ideas are largely a product of the Young Hegelians, of which Marx was a member. Significant study and anthropological evidence actually suports these positions, unfortunately they have been largeyl dismissed today because of their ties to Marxism.

Quote:

It is now, almost to the year, sixteen centuries since a dangerous party of overthrow was likewise active in the Roman empire. It undermined religion and all the foundations of the state; it flatly denied that Caesar’s will was the supreme law; it was without a fatherland, was international; it spread over the whole empire, from Gaul to Asia, and beyond the frontiers of the empire. It had long carried on seditious activities underground in secret; for a considerable time, however, it had felt itself strong enough to come out into the open. This party of overthrow, which was known by the name of Christians, was also strongly represented in the army; whole legions were Christian. When they were ordered to attend the sacrificial ceremonies of the pagan established church, in order to do the honours there, the subversive soldiers had the audacity to stick peculiar emblems — crosses — on their helmets in protest. Even the customary barrack bullying of their superior officers was fruitless. The Emperor Diocletian could no longer quietly look on while order, obedience and discipline in his army were being undermined. He stepped in with vigour, while there was still time. He promulgated an anti-Socialist — I beg your pardon, I meant to say anti-Christian-law. The meetings of the overthrowers were forbidden , their meeting halls were closed or even pulled down, the Christian emblems, crosses, etc., were, like the red handkerchiefs in Saxony, prohibited. Christians were declared ineligible for holding public office; they were not to be allowed to become even corporals. Since at that time there were no judges so well trained in “respect of persons�? as Mr. von Köller’s anti-overthrow bill assumes, Christians were forbidden out of hand to seek justice before a court. Even this exceptional law was to no avail. The Christians tore it down from the walls with scorn; they are even supposed to have set fire to the Emperor’s palace in Nicomedia in his presence. Then the latter revenged himself by the great persecution of Christians in the year 303 A.D. It was the last of its kind. And it was so effective that seventeen years later the army consisted overwhelmingly of Christians, and the succeeding autocrat of the whole Roman empire, Constantine, called the Great by the priests, proclaimed Christianity the state religion.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx...1895/03/06.htm

Also see:

On Early Christianity by Frederick Engels:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx...nity/index.htm

secular buddhist · 03-19-2004, 06:09 PM

Interesting tidbit. I am currently reading A History of Western Philosophy by Bertrand Russell, and he claims that a major reason for Constantine's conversion to Christianity was to ensure the loyalty of the army, which was largely Christian.

Toto · 03-19-2004, 06:28 PM

I was under the impression that the Roman soldiers with followers of Mithra, not Christianity, at least until Constantine tried to combine Mithra, Christianity, and the worship of Sol Invictus together into one.

Revelation_Man · 03-21-2004, 12:36 PM

Yes, Constantine's conversion to Christianity was an excellent political (and spiritual) move.

Yes, the Christians in the beginning had such great, wonderful intentions. Like all things. Really. Then the Pope got greedy and made lunatics like John Calvin, Martin Luther and King Henry VIII popular.

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03-19-2004, 06:09 PM	#2
secular buddhist Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Eugene, Oregon Posts: 104	Interesting tidbit. I am currently reading A History of Western Philosophy by Bertrand Russell, and he claims that a major reason for Constantine's conversion to Christianity was to ensure the loyalty of the army, which was largely Christian.

03-19-2004, 06:28 PM	#3
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	I was under the impression that the Roman soldiers with followers of Mithra, not Christianity, at least until Constantine tried to combine Mithra, Christianity, and the worship of Sol Invictus together into one.

03-21-2004, 12:36 PM	#4
Revelation_Man Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 39	Yes, Constantine's conversion to Christianity was an excellent political (and spiritual) move. Yes, the Christians in the beginning had such great, wonderful intentions. Like all things. Really. Then the Pope got greedy and made lunatics like John Calvin, Martin Luther and King Henry VIII popular.

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