Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GakuseiDon · 03-01-2008, 05:21 AM

Jesus was associated with the Logos by the 2nd C CE. The Logos seems to have been an impersonal force until then. Was anyone else ever described as the Logos, either in Christian or pagan mythology, before or since?

robto · 03-01-2008, 08:31 AM

Philo, On the Confusion of Tongues 146, seems to bring together many of the aspects of the Logos that Christians would later apply to Jesus:

God’s First Born, the Logos, who holds the eldership among the angels, their ruler as it were. And many names are his, for he is called “the Beginning,” and the Name of God and his Logos and the Man after his Image…

Not sure if this is the sort of thing you're looking for.

premjan · 03-01-2008, 11:33 AM

Maybe a result of having to sell Christianity in Greece?

GakuseiDon · 03-01-2008, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robto

Philo, On the Confusion of Tongues 146, seems to bring together many of the aspects of the Logos that Christians would later apply to Jesus:

God’s First Born, the Logos, who holds the eldership among the angels, their ruler as it were. And many names are his, for he is called “the Beginning,” and the Name of God and his Logos and the Man after his Image…

Not sure if this is the sort of thing you're looking for.

Thanks robto. I was really looking for where an actual person was associated with the Logos. Philo suggests some kind of association between Moses and the Logos, for example. I was wondering whether anyone knew about any more.

GakuseiDon · 03-01-2008, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by premjan

Maybe a result of having to sell Christianity in Greece?

Yes, I believe so. If so, then I am speculating that others might have tried to do the same. That is, did Christianity open the door for others to claim to be Reason personified? Or was that door already opened beforehand?

Toto · 03-01-2008, 01:33 PM

Sophia is "personalized" in the Psalms, but I am not aware that anyone regards her as a real person.

Could this be used as an indication that Jesus also was never a real person?

GakuseiDon · 03-01-2008, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Sophia is "personalized" in the Psalms, but I am not aware that anyone regards her as a real person.

Could this be used as an indication that Jesus also was never a real person?

Sure, why not? Everything else is.

Anyway, a "personalized" Sophia is an interesting suggestion, and I agree comes down to about the same. Good tip! I'll try the Gnostics again, though I was really hoping for something outside Christianity.

premjan · 03-01-2008, 02:12 PM

Mithras, apparently.

Quote:

Christ and Mithra were both referred to directly as the "Logos" (Larson 184).

http://www.crystalinks.com/mithraism.html

mg01 · 03-01-2008, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Sophia is "personalized" in the Psalms, but I am not aware that anyone regards her as a real person.

Could this be used as an indication that Jesus also was never a real person?

Toto, can you point me to this? Was it something that happened with the Septuagint or is it also in Hebrew?

Toto · 03-01-2008, 02:51 PM

My mistake, it seems to be in Proverbs. [Sophia is translated as "Wisdom" in most translations.]

Sophia in the Biblical Tradition

Quote:

Sophia, in the biblical creation was not a god, but was a divine being. It is not clear that she was uncreated like Jesus: the word used to refer to her creation also means "acquired" by God. Proverbs 8:22 -"God created me [acquired me] (Sophia) when God's purpose first unfolded." Ecclesiasticus 1:14 -"before all things, Sophia was created." She serves at the heart of the creative process, as Wisdom and as Teacher who was sent by God to save humanity.

03-01-2008, 05:21 AM	#1
GakuseiDon Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 5,714	Anyone other than Jesus as the Logos? Jesus was associated with the Logos by the 2nd C CE. The Logos seems to have been an impersonal force until then. Was anyone else ever described as the Logos, either in Christian or pagan mythology, before or since?

03-01-2008, 08:31 AM	#2
robto Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 701	Philo, On the Confusion of Tongues 146, seems to bring together many of the aspects of the Logos that Christians would later apply to Jesus: God’s First Born, the Logos, who holds the eldership among the angels, their ruler as it were. And many names are his, for he is called “the Beginning,” and the Name of God and his Logos and the Man after his Image… Not sure if this is the sort of thing you're looking for.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

03-01-2008, 11:33 AM	#3
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	Maybe a result of having to sell Christianity in Greece?

03-01-2008, 01:33 PM	#6
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Sophia is "personalized" in the Psalms, but I am not aware that anyone regards her as a real person. Could this be used as an indication that Jesus also was never a real person?

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.