ChairmanMeow

Special_pleading

You are spouting the same debunked arguments over and over again despite a library's worth of contradictory information.


There will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron—for iron breaks and smashes everything—and as iron breaks things to pieces, so it will crush and break all the others. —Daniel 2:40

Rome never conquered Persia. Rome never conquered any capitals of "Medo-Persia," as you would call it. Rome barely managed to control Babylon for less than a year.

Rome never "conquered" Greece. If anything, Hellenic culture came to dominate/was the source of culture for the Roman empire (see here)-- let alone the fact that many eastern regions of the former Greek/Macedonian empire were untouched by the Romans. Many foreign historians of the time considered Italian peoples to be an extention of Hellenic culture.


I'm not sure why I'm even bothering with this -- you continue to shift the goalposts and apply vague generalizations to historical concepts.

sugarhitman

1. Roman- Nordic/Alpine/Mediterranean-Europeans
2.Empire- Those empires Daniel are concerned with....who rules over the nation of Israel
3. Ten kings-POSSIBLY Franks, Burgandians,Visogoths, Vandals, Ostrogoths, Alemanni, Suevi, Heruli, Anglo-Saxons, Lombards


Daniels four kingdom prophecy is not vague, he names three of them and gives a good hint as to who is the 4th. Daniel says clearly that Greece would defeat the Medes and Persians...which makes it the 3rd kingdom. Persia nor Median susceeded Babylon and ruled over Israel as single kingdoms. Only when they united did this happen. Medo-Persia is the second kingdom of Daniel. He told Nebby another KINGDOM (not kingdoms) of two arms and silver would rise after him. Later in ch. 5 Babylon is divided between the "Medes and Persians" a clear as day joint rule. Critics seperates the Medes from the Persians to destort the prophecy...but the fact is in relevence to his own vision he does not seperate the Medes from the Persians as two kingdoms...there are numerous sources both secular and apologetics say the same thing. Greece conquered the combined armies of Media and Persia which makes it the third kingdom which agrees with the symbols of the Four horned goat and four headed leopard, because Greece split into four kingdoms.



Spin also said That the son of man coming with the clouds in Daniel is Michael. But this person is to be given dominion and a eternal kingdom....there is only one person who is to be given an eternal kingdom...that is the Davidic Messiah. I suspect the reason spin say this is to deny that the Book of Daniel is Messiahnic which would destroy his interpretation that the Anoited Messiah is Onias III. The book of Daniel has the same meaning as Revelation......The return of the "Son of David."

Sheshonq

The only thing you left out was Slavic and Celtic. So everyone in Europe is Roman except the Slavs and the Celts?

What about the Jutes? What about the Picts? The Angles and Saxons were two different tribes; why did you lump them togther? What about the Rugii, the Sciri, the Suiones, the Daner?

The bald fact is that you copied your list from here - which is just some fundibot pulling Germanic tribe names out of Gibbons seminal work on Rome. After which he tries to shoe-horn them into fulfilling some prophecy.

Unfortunately , copy/pasting from someone else's site isn't going to work. You'll need to explain why each tribe was included - and why you left out many Germanic tribes from the list.

That was not the question. You were asked to define what an empire was. You were asked to do this, because you have been caught red handed several times in changing the definition and goalposts on this. So provide us a definition of "empire" that you are willing to be held accountable for.

Of course it is. That's why you're having such a godawful time trying to nail it down in a believable manner.

No, that is what the actual history says. If actual history distorts your prophecy - tough luck. It was not a joint rule at the time of the invasion of Babylon - end of story. The Medes had been subjugated decades earlier, and the Persians ruled by themselves.

sugarhitman

To overlap another kingdom is not to susceed it. Did the Medians as a single kingdom conquer Babylon? No. Did the Medes as a single empire rule Israel (Daniel is only concerned with those kingdoms dominating Israel, this is where critics fall off track with their many empires arguement)? No. Then the Medes are not the second kingdom of Daniel's vision by itself. Cheers

Sheshonq

Obviously an impossible question, since the Median empire was subjugated by Persia decades before the capture of Babylon.

Jack the Bodiless

Rubbish.

Daniel is (suppsedly) in BABYLON. Interpreting the dreams of the king of BABYLON.

And you've already admitted that the Medes never ruled over ISRAEL.

You lose! (...again)

ChairmanMeow

It's not very often that this can apply to one person, but I think we can all agree that in this thread you managed to earn it, sugar!

sugarhitman

Celts are a branch of a Germanic group which makes them Nordic. Slavs are considered to be in the Alpine class.


He ask me what was my definition of empire. The empires that interest me are those that rule over Israel....as well as to Daniel and his vision. Any other empire is irrevelent to this prophecy.....because all the others after Rome did not rule over Israel.



And you have yet to qoute a source that seperates the Medes and Persians...can you find one?

Also note that I said that my list of kings is possibly those tribes which I named....but that is uncertain. Christians will not know for a fact who these kings are until Globalization is complete. But they will be European...and likely from the dominant Germanic peoples.

Sheshonq

Says who?

Again, says who?

You know damn well what he was asking you, and why he wanted it - if for no other reason because he complained about you moving the goalposts on this definition.

That is off topic. We're talking about getting you to give a definition of empire - ANY empire - and sticking with that definition for longer than, say, 20 minutes.

Nice try. But we aren't talking about other empires. We're talking about your shifting, changing definition of empire and trying to nail you down to a definition.

I've already given it. Get off your lazy ass and search the thread.

In point of fact, you don't have a clue who these "ten kings" are. You simply don't.
And when forced to answer the question, you googled a fundibot website and just cut/pasted a list.

Thanks; I suspected as much.

sugarhitman

The end that comes with a flood means that Israel would be destroyed suddenly after the destruction of the temple and city. From then on unto the end of the war (Armegeddon) the world will experiance wars and desolations.