KrisK10

Hi Folks,

Curious if any one has done any research on this topic. A popular commentator from the right, Dinesh D'souza, has claimed Christianity to be the origin of Human Rights. He even provides the following quote from a famous atheist philosopher who hated human rights, Friedrich Nietzsche, to support this assertion:

"Another Christian concept, no less crazy, has passed even more deeply into the tissue of modernity: the concept of the 'equality of souls before God.' This concept furnishes the prototype of all theories of equal rights: mankind was first taught to stammer the proposition of equality in a religious context, and only later was it made into morality: no wonder that man ended by taking it seriously, taking it practically, socialistically, in the spirit of the pessimism of indignation."

Does anyone disagree that Christianity brought human rights to the world?

Further, if Christianity is not of divine origin, then it seems to me that the real origin of human rights is whatever brought about the Christian idea of "equality of souls before God". Doesn't this just lead back to empathy?


Kris

madmax2976

Yes. Richard Carrier for instance, wrote an article about Solon, the Athenian and his contribution to the idea of equality. He argues it outshines anything that Christianity brought to equal rights by a large margin.

http://secweb.infidels.org/?kiosk=articles&id=2

In my view, it all does, yes.

bacht

I think it's been argued that Elijah and Elisha were vox populi, speaking "truth to power" against economic oppression in the Northern kingdom of Israel (9th C BC), as was the prophet Amos writing a century later.

Keith&Co.

I think equal rights in this world is completely apart from equal judgment in the next one. That was the carrot, rather. Live content with poverty and hardship in this life, knowing that your heart is more pure than that bastard rich man's, so while he enjoys his brief span here, you'll do better in the eternity.

Easier to pass a rope through the eye of a needle than a rich man enter heaven and all that...

Not to mention that women's rights run exactly counter to biblical instruction.

KrisK10

Thanks Madmax for the ref from Carrier. It was OK, written all the way back in 2000 with respect to the 10 commandments.

I suppose a related question to this topic is: Are there are any examples anywhere that are outside of Christianity's influence (I suppose one would have to go to Islamic or the Oriental lands to get this) where the concept of human equality appears, e.g. somewhere where slavery was opposed or more rights for women were encouraged or some similar thing.

Kris

Toto

I do. Christianity did not usher in any vast improvement in human rights. Most of its ethical pronouncements can be derived from Jewish or Hellenistic sources, and it adapted to the political situation of the day - it accepted slavery and inequality for the vast majority of its history.

"Human rights" as a concept started with the enlightenment philosophers. But since these philosophers lived in political systems where Christians retained power, the natural tendency was to look to Christian ideas to justify the new ideas. And there has been a corresponding tendency for Christian theologians to redefine their beliefs to be compatible with the most advanced thinking of the age.

You might never guess, reading modern Christians, that southern Christians in the confederacy taught that slavery was a divinely sanctioned economic system.

You could probably guess that most Christian pastors and theolgians up until very recently opposed equal rights for women; some still do. Within living memory, Christian priests and pastors adviced abused women to stay with their husbands because the Bible called for women to be submissive. Women are still not allowed full participation in the Catholic Church or many conservative evangelical churches. The Catholic Church continues to oppose women's control over their own fertility.

Consider this very recent theolgical advance: Showdown in Texas over a woman's place in the pulpit

"Equality of souls before god" as a principle never seemed to translate into equality of real human beings in society until those human beings stood up for their rights.

andrewcriddle

I share to a large extent Richard's admiration of Solon although I think some of the reforms he attributes to Solon himself may come from Solon's successors.

However, I think we should distinguish between civil rights, the rights of all citizens to be treated fairly by their fellow citizens, and human rights , the claims of human beings as such upon other human beings. Solon was an important founder of civil rights but not really of human rights.

The spread of modern ideas of human rights is associated with the rise of Christianity but such ideas can be found earlier eg in some philosophers in the stoic tradition.

Andrew Criddle

neilgodfrey

There are quite good articles on the web about human rights and the history of human rights.

mountainman

YES. Whatever it may have been before the fourth century, when it made its appearance in the fourth century Christianity at this earliest of epochs is to be securely associated with an imperial regime of persecution and intolerance which inlcuded the torture of the upper classes. If you do not believe me I suggest you read Ammianus Marcellinus and some of the earlier laws enacted under Constantine to be found in the Codex Theodosianus. As such christianity in an ancient historical sense is in fact the atithesis of the bringing of human rights to the world. I think you should ask Dinesh D'souza to educate himself in the field of ancient history.


Though it has in it nothing divine,
by making full use of that part of the soul
which loves fable and is childish and foolish,
it has induced men to believe
that the monstrous tale is truth.


It leads back to a story first widely published in the fourth century. Perhaps we have outgrown the story book?


Best wishes,


Pete

hinduwoman

Equality of souls is also present in Hinduism. All souls are a part of God and same and anyone can achieve liberation. But socially it is another ball game.
So you might as well say --- since Hinduism is older --- that christians stole the idea from Hindus.