Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Newton's Cat · 01-07-2009, 10:28 PM

NIV

From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing and forceful men lay hold of it.

KJV

And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence and the violent take it by force.

Literal

And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven is forcibly treated, and forceful men seize it

So - how does the NIV justify the translation "has been forcefully advancing"?

Re: Genesis 3:15

NIV

And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will CRUSH your head ...

KJV

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall BRUISE thy head ...

Obviously the person or people who produced the NIV either hadn't a clue or were deliberately mistranslating.

One could say that the NIV is "Satanic"

Others seem to agree with me:

".. the NIV a Trojan Horse filled with deceit and lies waiting to DESTROY YOU!"

Etc.

Just a thought - what version does Obama read?

sweetpea7 · 01-08-2009, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elijah

Maybe there will be conflict but maybe there will have been enough by then.

I like the idea. I would think that there has been enough conflict alreadly. How much conflict does god want/need? Unfortunately, I don't see your idea has any support from the Bible. Everything I remember from reading the Bible and church talks about Armageddon, "left behind", judgement for unbelievers=hell.

Quote:

I don’t think it is unusual and I don’t think beliefs are uniform between churches regardless if they label themselves the same. The beliefs of the church depend too much on who the leaders of the church hire to preach.

I agree with you up to a point. If the church is a member of the SBC, I believe they have to agree to a Statement of Faith. Of course, I recognize that maybe there are churches who really don't abide by this. It seems as if either you got lucky or the churches in my area are just more conservative. Here's the SBC take on the Last Days, and I don't see anything about Jesus setting a peaceful example:

http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp#x

Quote:

X. Last Things

God, in His own time and in His own way, will bring the world to its appropriate end. According to His promise, Jesus Christ will return personally and visibly in glory to the earth; the dead will be raised; and Christ will judge all men in righteousness. The unrighteous will be consigned to Hell, the place of everlasting punishment. The righteous in their resurrected and glorified bodies will receive their reward and will dwell forever in Heaven with the Lord.

Isaiah 2:4; 11:9; Matthew 16:27; 18:8-9; 19:28; 24:27,30,36,44; 25:31-46; 26:64; Mark 8:38; 9:43-48; Luke 12:40,48; 16:19-26; 17:22-37; 21:27-28; John 14:1-3; Acts 1:11; 17:31; Romans 14:10; 1 Corinthians 4:5; 15:24-28,35-58; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Philippians 3:20-21; Colossians 1:5; 3:4; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18; 5:1ff.; 2 Thessalonians 1:7ff.; 2; 1 Timothy 6:14; 2 Timothy 4:1,8; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 9:27-28; James 5:8; 2 Peter 3:7ff.; 1 John 2:28; 3:2; Jude 14; Revelation 1:18; 3:11; 20:1-22:13.

sweetpea7 · 01-08-2009, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newton's Cat

".. the NIV a Trojan Horse filled with deceit and lies waiting to DESTROY YOU!"

Etc.

Just a thought - what version does Obama read?

He doesn't read The Holy Bible. He probably reads The Satanic Verses, or even worse,The Quran. :Cheeky:

nickpecoraro · 01-08-2009, 10:00 AM

Matthew 11:11-13 (King James Version)

11Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

12And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

13For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Matthew 11:11--13 (Hebrew Gospel of Matthew, George Howard, from the Shem-Tob manuscripts)
11 Again Jesus said to his disciples; Truly I say to you, among all those born of woman none has arisen greater than John the Baptizer.
12 From his days until now the kingdom of heaven has been oppressed and senseless persons have been rending it.
13 For all the prophets and the law spoke concerning John.

Compare...What do you think?

nick pecoraro

The Dagda · 01-08-2009, 10:47 AM

That explains why that historian was convinced the Catholics had elided The Bible, in your face Jesus!

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01-07-2009, 10:28 PM	#21
Newton's Cat Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,181	NIV From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing and forceful men lay hold of it. KJV And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence and the violent take it by force. Literal And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven is forcibly treated, and forceful men seize it So - how does the NIV justify the translation "has been forcefully advancing"? Re: Genesis 3:15 NIV And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will CRUSH your head ... KJV And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall BRUISE thy head ... Obviously the person or people who produced the NIV either hadn't a clue or were deliberately mistranslating. One could say that the NIV is "Satanic" Others seem to agree with me: ".. the NIV a Trojan Horse filled with deceit and lies waiting to DESTROY YOU!" Etc. Just a thought - what version does Obama read?

01-08-2009, 10:00 AM	#24
nickpecoraro Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Fort Pierce FL Posts: 46	Matthew 11:11-13 (King James Version) 11Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. 13For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. Matthew 11:11--13 (Hebrew Gospel of Matthew, George Howard, from the Shem-Tob manuscripts) 11 Again Jesus said to his disciples; Truly I say to you, among all those born of woman none has arisen greater than John the Baptizer. 12 From his days until now the kingdom of heaven has been oppressed and senseless persons have been rending it. 13 For all the prophets and the law spoke concerning John. Compare...What do you think? nick pecoraro

01-08-2009, 10:47 AM	#25
The Dagda Banned Join Date: May 2008 Location: England, Portsmouth Posts: 5,108	That explains why that historian was convinced the Catholics had elided The Bible, in your face Jesus!

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