Newfie

If it is assumed that the Bible is the literal truth, and that Jesus especially would never lie, or even fib, then Jesus' parables must be actual recollections of real events and historical, correct?

Just a quick question for Christians or anyone else for that matter.

wordy

One of the stories jesus himself says is a fictional story.

The fig tree that didn't bare fruit out of season and he got angry at it something.

First it is presented as if it really did happen. Then later in that text or another text he tells them.

do you remember when I told you the story of the fig tree so he imply it was a story and not something that really did happen.

What I am curious on is this.

Was such stories a well known genre and when did it start and where else are such to be read and could one find such texts that they could have plagiarized?

No Robots

MASHAL (plural meshalim): In the Hebrew tradition, a mashal is a broad, general term including almost any type of figurative language from short riddles to long, extended allegories. It denotes "mysterious speech." Some of the Psalms, for instance, are designated as meshalim. The New Testament Greek often translates the term as parabole or "parable." This translation, however, causes some problem. In Greek, parabole are always allegorical and open to point-by-point interpretation. Parabole were often used as a simple method of teaching by example or analogy. The meshalim in Hebrew, however, was often intentionally confusing or deliberately obfuscating in nature--much more like the Greek enigma (riddle). We can see this confusion in the New Testament, where Mark interprets the purpose of the parables as Hebrew meshalim. In Mark, Jesus tells his disciples: "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise, they might turn and be forgiven'" (Mark 4:11-12). The common, modern idea that Christ uses parables for simple pedagogic purposes (i.e., "so that even a child could understand the secrets of heaven") is a creation of the medieval period, much later.--"Mashal"

robto

I think you'll find that pretty much all Christians accept that the Bible contains a mix of genres: history, poetry, allegory, etc. So Jesus speaking in parables isn't fibbing: the listeners and readers know these are parables, not factual stories.

storytime

I think you'll find that the majority of Christians are totally surprised to learn that Jesus was a deceiver because it was not meant that they should inherit the Kingdom of God as uncircumcised and lawless idol worshiping Gentiles; being that God had predistined before the world began who could enter into his kingdom and who could not.

So, in actuality, Jesus lied in order to protect the kingdom and insuring it be given to whom it was determined and measured in tribes of Israel. (see Revelation and the New Jerusalem city)

Tigers!

If your initial premise "If it is assumed that the Bible is the literal truth, " is assumed to be correct then your conclusion "hen Jesus' parables must be actual recollections of real events and historical" is correct.
If however we believe that the Bible has parable, metaphor, hyperbole, allegory etc: and good old fashioned literal phrases in it then your conslusion in incorrect.

Newfie

But how rigid does the "literal truth" have to be? If some person writes an autobiography which is completely factual by anyone's measure, but in that book the author recalls telling a joke involving a Scotsman imploring a fly that had landed in his beer to "Spit it out, damn you! Spit it out!" are we to believe that some Scotsman really did this? How different are jokes from parables?

spamandham

There are *no* Biblical literalists. Instead, there are people who claim to be Biblical literalists, but then hand wave away everything that they find bothersome.

To some degree, you have to admire the tenacity of Qu'ran literalists, who will simply declare that 2 = 3 if the Qu'ran says so.

Vinnie

That is not a very good argument. Parables are meant to be short, conventional stories that teach an important truth. Telling a story is not lying. Using an analogy or parable to demonstrate a point is simply an effective method of teaching.

Vinnie

robto

???

I thought we were discussing parables?

:huh: