aa5874

It has been brought to my attention that Pliny's letter to Trajan about the Christians have UTTERLY destroyed the the Historical Jesus and the History of the Church.

The Pliny letter to Trajan has DOCUMENTED that Pliny himself did NOT ever know about a character called Jesus and did NOT know what Christians believed up to 110 CE.

Pliny himself LIVED in Rome and had to TORURE Christians in Bythinia because he had NO knowledge of the Beliefs of Christians.

Before and After the TORTURE of the Christians there was NO mention at all of Jesus by PLINY himself.

http://www9.georgetown.edu/faculty/jod/texts/pliny.html

Trajan to Pliny http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pliny_the_Younger
It is ALL over for the Historical Jesus and the History of the Church.

Pliny the younger was a LAWYER and MAGISTRATE in ROME and did NOT ever hear of Jesus and that Christians worshiped such a character BEFORE and AFTER TORTURE up to 110 CE.

It is NOW known without any reasonable doubt that the Jesus story is an INVENTION which was fabricated sometime AFTER 110 CE.

maryhelena

How about a proto-christianity that did not know Jesus?

Christians, according to Melito of Sardis, and Tertullian, were doing their thing during the reign of Augustus (d.14 c.e.)

So - Christians without Jesus! And is that not the story of the wonder-doer now contained within Slavonic Josephus? A nameless figure. Indeed, this figure dies on a cross and his followers believe “that he is living, although he is dead. It’s the resurrected, the “living’ nameless figure that is important not the life that such a figure might have previously lived. Looks to me the table is set for a spiritual Christ figure - and the nameless dead wonder-worker is no longer the focus. Yes, in time, for whatever reason, the wonder-doer story gets an update - and the gospel JC is ‘born’. But in the meantime - its Christians believing in Christ not Jesus. That day was down the line. So the question becomes when did the wonder-doer story become the gospel Jesus story? And that update, when it would eventually come - might well leave some Christians wanting to stay with the old storyline - and take some time to adjust to the new ‘orthodox’ position.

Re the question of adding the name of *Jesus* to certain passages in Slavonic Josephus:

Regarding of the use of *Jesus* in connection with the Josephan prophecy regarding Vespasian:

The Slavonic Josephus wonder-doer account in the text at sacred-text.com does not use the word *Jesus* in the crucifixion story - whereas the book ‘Josephus' Jewish War and Its Slavonic Version, A Synoptic Comparison’ does - but has the above footnote. (preview on google books)

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/gno/gjb/gjb-3.htm

*Jesus*, according to Philippians, is the new resurrection name of the crucified man. A new name that became available to update the wonder-doer storyline into the gospel JC story.

aa5874

Pliny the Magistrate and Lawyer who lived in Rome has ANSWERED the question.

It was AFTER 110 CE that the Jesus story was INITIATED.

It is clear that Pliny the Magistrate and Lawyer did NOT ever hear about a character called Jesus, had NO idea what Christians believed and MET his FIRST Christians in BYTHINIA, NOT Rome, and TORTURED some to find out what Christians believed.

Pliny the Magistrate and Lawyer who lived in Rome has destroyed the Historical Jesus and the History of the Church.

maryhelena

Christians, aa5874 - were doing their thing long before Pliny was born.....

aa5874

But not with the Historical Jesus.

You seem NOT to understand that Pliny DESTROYED the Historical Jesus and the History of the Church, NOT Christianity.

Pliny the Magistrate and Lawyer corroborates that there were Christians that did NOT know of Jesus of Nazareth and that Pliny himself did NOT know of Jesus.

Christians were doing their thing BEFORE the Jesus story was FABRICATED.

We know people were called Christians because they Believed they were ANNOITED with the Oil of God.

Christians were doing their thing WITHOUT an Historical Jesus.

To Autholycus 1 Pliny the Magistrate and Lawyer who lived in Rome has DESTROYED the Historical Jesus and the History of the Church.

maryhelena

Of course - since there was no historical Jesus they didn't have an option did they now?

aa5874 - you know as well as I do that there was no historical Jesus - so there was nothing for Piiny to destroy......

So?
Correct.

It's going to take a lot more than Pliny not knowing about Jesus to destroy the historicist's position on the gospel JC.

aa5874

Well, I really don't know about you.

All I KNOW is that Pliny the Magistrate and Lawyer who lived in Rome has DESTROYED virtually the ENTIRE NT, the Historical Jesus and the History of the Church in his Letter to Trajan about the Christians.

Pliny himself did NOT KNOW one single thing about Jesus, did NOT know what Christians believed and MET Christians for the FIRST TIME in Bythinia, NOT Rome.

But did you not just tell me there was no historical Jesus? Please apply some logic to your own statement!!

The historicist does NOT have any position--there is NO historical Jesus.

Come on, maryhelena. This is so basic.

maryhelena

OK - lets stop this silly word game - the historicists have an assumed position - they assume, they have an assumption regarding the gospel figure of JC....

aa5874

What silly word games you play!!!! You should not "play" silly word games with yourself.

Pliny the Magistrate and Lawyer who lived in Rome MET Christians for the FIRST TIME in 110 CE and NOT in Rome but in Bythinia and they did NOT even know of Jesus.

What a Shocker!!!!

The Jesus story was Fabricated AFTER 110 CE and was UNKNOWN in Rome.

Duvduv

Were Athenagoras or Theophilus ever in Rome, or just in Athens and Antioch respectively??