Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 01-22-2013, 07:58 PM

Quote:

A TOP priest has been forced to quit a Bible-teaching job after writing a book claiming Jesus did not exist.

Fr Tom Brodie makes the claim in Beyond the Quest for the Historical Jesus.

The publication sparked fury in his order and he was removed from his post at the Dominican Biblical Institute in Limerick, which he helped set up.

According to documents seen by the Irish Sun, the veteran scholar was also banned from any lecturing, teaching or writing while a probe is under way.

Beyond the Quest for the Historical Jesus: Memoir of a Discovery (or via: amazon.co.uk)

mountainman · 01-22-2013, 08:09 PM

Publication Date: September 6, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Book Description

In the past forty years, while historical-critical studies were seeking with renewed intensity to reconstruct events behind the biblical texts, not least the life of Jesus, two branches of literary studies were finally reaching maturity. First, researchers were recognizing that many biblical texts are rewritings or transformations of older texts that still exist, thus giving a clearer sense of where the biblical texts came from; and second, studies in the ancient art of composition clarified the biblical texts' unity and purpose, that is to say, where biblical texts were headed.

The primary literary model behind the gospels, Brodie argues, is the biblical account of Elijah and Elisha, as R.E. Brown already saw in 1971. In this fascinating memoir of his life journey, Tom Brodie, Irishman, Dominican priest, and biblical scholar, recounts the steps he has taken, in an eventful life in many countries, to his conclusion that the New Testament account of Jesus is essentially a rewriting of the Septuagint version of the Hebrew Bible, or, in some cases, of earlier New Testament texts. Jesus' challenge to would-be disciples (Luke 9.57-62), for example, is a transformation of the challenge to Elijah at Horeb (1 Kings 19), while his journey from Jerusalem and Judea to Samaria and beyond (John 2.23-4.54) is deeply indebted to the account of the journey of God's Word in Acts 1-8.

The work of tracing literary indebtedness and art is far from finished but it is already possible and necessary to draw a conclusion: it is that, bluntly, Jesus did not exist as a historical individual.

This is not as negative as may at first appear. In a deeply personal coda, Brodie begins to develop a new vision of Jesus as an icon of God's presence in the world and in human history.

Chili · 01-22-2013, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Publication Date: September 6, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Book Description

//

The work of tracing literary indebtedness and art is far from finished but it is already possible and necessary to draw a conclusion: it is that, bluntly, Jesus did not exist as a historical individual.

This is not as negative as may at first appear. In a deeply personal coda, Brodie begins to develop a new vision of Jesus as an icon of God's presence in the world and in human history.

And he is right in this. The only reason why they will 'shut him up' is it removes the mystery from Catholicism wherein the icon points at the reality in the believer as Catholic, to be sure, wherein the mystery must unfold.

In other words, if they now would start telling from the pulpit that "it is all in your head" and think about it when you go home, nobody would come back.

Bingo the Clown-O · 01-22-2013, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Pulpit Fiction

Quote:

A TOP priest has been forced to quit a Bible-teaching job after writing a book claiming Jesus did not exist.

Fr Tom Brodie makes the claim in Beyond the Quest for the Historical Jesus.

The publication sparked fury in his order and he was removed from his post at the Dominican Biblical Institute in Limerick, which he helped set up.

According to documents seen by the Irish Sun, the veteran scholar was also banned from any lecturing, teaching or writing while a probe is under way.

Beyond the Quest for the Historical Jesus: Memoir of a Discovery (or via: amazon.co.uk)

Did you discover this story by reading Neil Godfrey’s blog?

http://vridar.wordpress.com/2013/01/...omas-l-brodie/

Just admit it. You did. Didn’t you.

mountainman · 01-22-2013, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Pulpit Fiction

The results of the probe should be known by the end of the week

Quote:

In the book, Fr Brodie insists many of Jesus’s acts were a rip-off of the Hebrew Bible or, in some cases, of earlier texts.

A well-placed source told the Irish Sun: “Tom’s book has caused quite a stir and some considerable upset.

“The whole premise of his book has been questioned by biblical scholars. He was asked to step aside from his ministry and the Provincial Council unanimously backed that decision.

A committee is now examining his work and will meet with Fr Brodie to discuss it.”

...[...]...

“His resignation was accepted.”

The results of the probe should be known by the end of the week

mountainman · 01-22-2013, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo the Clown-O

... Neil Godfrey’s blog.

http://vridar.wordpress.com/2013/01/...omas-l-brodie/

From the blog ...

Quote:

Is anyone surprised? But how many biblical scholars will be outraged over the ideological suppression of free critical inquiry? It is clearly Brodie’s conclusions that have upset people. I doubt there will be too much discussion of the details of his methods.

One of the blog comments .....

Quote:

1.At least this will allow Bart Ehrman to claim that nobody with a teaching position believes Jesus didn’t exist…

Not surprising…but still sad.

Another comment ....

Quote:

The “discovery” in “Memoir of a Discovery” is Brodie’s realization that Jesus is a literary character and did not exist as a historical person at all. This is diametrically opposed to the thesis of Bart Ehrman’s book Did Jesus Exist?: The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth which answers that question with an unqualified “yes.”

Ehrman’s book repeats over and over again the assertion that no reputable New Testament scholars deny the historicity of Jesus, and Brodie’s book certainly blows that assertion out of the water. Brodie is an established biblical scholar who heads an institution devoted to biblical scholarship and has published widely on topics in New Testament studies.

Thanks very much Neil Godfrey.

Bingo the Clown-O · 01-22-2013, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Quote:

The results of the probe should be known by the end of the week

Gosh, do you really think they’re gonna ‘probe’ into the issue of if Jesus existed?

I bet they eventually accuse Brodie of molesting boys or something.

Bingo the Clown-O · 01-22-2013, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Thanks very much Neil Godfrey.

+1

Chili · 01-22-2013, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Pulpit Fiction

The results of the probe should be known by the end of the week

Quote:

In the book, Fr Brodie insists many of Jesus’s acts were a rip-off of the Hebrew Bible or, in some cases, of earlier texts.

A well-placed source told the Irish Sun: “Tom’s book has caused quite a stir and some considerable upset.

“The whole premise of his book has been questioned by biblical scholars. He was asked to step aside from his ministry and the Provincial Council unanimously backed that decision.

A committee is now examining his work and will meet with Fr Brodie to discuss it.”

...[...]...

“His resignation was accepted.”

The results of the probe should be known by the end of the week

The contradiction here is that it cannot be a 'rip-off' if it is 'iconic.' Iconic makes it archetypal as prior to man by nature.

Chili · 01-22-2013, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo the Clown-O

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Thanks very much Neil Godfrey.

+1

It does not fry God at all. It is just another flat earth argument against the historical Jesus who came down from the heavens [in the plural] to the world below [in the singular] to make his presence known in the mind of believers.

If has nothing to do with history or with his individuality that he does not have nor is claimed to have as insurrectionist entrusted with a mandate.

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