Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Roach Clips · 02-04-2007, 11:00 AM

Is the rapture the end of salvation? I've been told that non-believers will have a chance to repent during the seven years tribulation that will follow the rapture but my muslim friend says the rapture is the end of salvation. So which one is it?

Chris Weimer · 02-04-2007, 11:08 AM

Muslims have a doctrine of the rapture too?

Roach Clips · 02-04-2007, 11:14 AM

No, but they can have an educated opinion. I don't have a doctrine of the rapture, being an Atheist, but I still can discuss it.

Chris Weimer · 02-04-2007, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roach Clips

No, but they can have an educated opinion. I don't have a doctrine of the rapture, being an Atheist, but I still can discuss it.

You threw me off there. Just wanted some clarification.

Also, do note that many Christians don't believe in the rapture.

The Whiffle Man · 02-04-2007, 11:22 AM

There are various and sundry opinions regarding this matter.

I remember it being implied in the "Thief in the Night" series of movies that if one had explicitly and knowingly rejected Christ before the rapture, then no they did not have a chance, but if they were somewhat ignorant than they did.

Other times I've heard that everybody has a chance after the rapture but that once you've gotten the mark of the beast, you can't. But I was also told that in this case it was not because you couldn't per se but you didn't want to because you were so evil. Similar to how some Christians say that those in hell don't want to repent which is why they never leave hell or something along those lines.

When it comes to dispensationalist eschatology (the theory that believes in the rapture) there is a lot more speculation than with other eschatologies and more disagreeement because there is such an emphasis on being as literal as possible and being really really detailed in trying to discern the future. But since the text isn't so clear as we would like this leads to disagreement. Of course, plenty of dispensationalists are candid enough to admit this and are charitable, but there are others that go off of the deep end....

But, oh, look me, rambling on.

Anyhow, the short answer to your question is that Christians disagree. You really can use that answer a lot in Christian theology, can't you?

Kevin

GenesisNemesis · 02-04-2007, 05:26 PM

The Rapture isn't going to happen.

Doug Shaver · 02-04-2007, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

Also, do note that many Christians don't believe in the rapture.

Actually, most of them don't. It's pretty much a hard-core-fundamentalist thing.

Roach Clips · 02-05-2007, 05:43 PM

So are there any Christians who believe that non-believers will have a chance for salvation during the seven year tribulation following the rapture?

Diogenes the Cynic · 02-05-2007, 06:06 PM

Here's the thing. "Rapture" theology is all non-Biblical tripe invented in the 19th century. Most of the largest Christian denominations (like the RCC, for instance) have no belief in it all. Among those who do, there is no authoritative final word on what is or is not "correct," because it's not based on anything in the Bible and has taken on an entirely plastic, impressionistic character among its advocates. It's what ever any given, self-appointed preacher (or hack novelist) wants it to be.

The most absurd irony of Rapture theology is that its adherents believe they are being scriptural literalists when they are actually torturing the text beyond recognition to fit an externally derived fantasy of endtimes.

Roach Clips · 02-05-2007, 08:37 PM

Okay, I get the general idea that this is all a bunch BS but do any particular Christian sects believe that non-believers will have a chance for salvation during the seven year tribulation following the rapture? Is there none that believe that?

02-04-2007, 11:00 AM	#1
Roach Clips Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Winnipeg Manitoba Posts: 309	The Rapture, do non-believers have a chance to be saved after it? Is the rapture the end of salvation? I've been told that non-believers will have a chance to repent during the seven years tribulation that will follow the rapture but my muslim friend says the rapture is the end of salvation. So which one is it?

02-04-2007, 11:22 AM	#5
The Whiffle Man Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: US Posts: 144	sort of There are various and sundry opinions regarding this matter. I remember it being implied in the "Thief in the Night" series of movies that if one had explicitly and knowingly rejected Christ before the rapture, then no they did not have a chance, but if they were somewhat ignorant than they did. Other times I've heard that everybody has a chance after the rapture but that once you've gotten the mark of the beast, you can't. But I was also told that in this case it was not because you couldn't per se but you didn't want to because you were so evil. Similar to how some Christians say that those in hell don't want to repent which is why they never leave hell or something along those lines. When it comes to dispensationalist eschatology (the theory that believes in the rapture) there is a lot more speculation than with other eschatologies and more disagreeement because there is such an emphasis on being as literal as possible and being really really detailed in trying to discern the future. But since the text isn't so clear as we would like this leads to disagreement. Of course, plenty of dispensationalists are candid enough to admit this and are charitable, but there are others that go off of the deep end.... But, oh, look me, rambling on. Anyhow, the short answer to your question is that Christians disagree. You really can use that answer a lot in Christian theology, can't you? Kevin

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02-04-2007, 11:08 AM	#2
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	Muslims have a doctrine of the rapture too?

02-04-2007, 11:14 AM	#3
Roach Clips Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Winnipeg Manitoba Posts: 309	No, but they can have an educated opinion. I don't have a doctrine of the rapture, being an Atheist, but I still can discuss it.

02-04-2007, 05:26 PM	#6
GenesisNemesis Contributor Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A pale blue oblate spheroid. Posts: 20,351	The Rapture isn't going to happen.

02-05-2007, 05:43 PM	#8
Roach Clips Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Winnipeg Manitoba Posts: 309	So are there any Christians who believe that non-believers will have a chance for salvation during the seven year tribulation following the rapture?

02-05-2007, 06:06 PM	#9
Diogenes the Cynic Moderator - Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 4,639	Here's the thing. "Rapture" theology is all non-Biblical tripe invented in the 19th century. Most of the largest Christian denominations (like the RCC, for instance) have no belief in it all. Among those who do, there is no authoritative final word on what is or is not "correct," because it's not based on anything in the Bible and has taken on an entirely plastic, impressionistic character among its advocates. It's what ever any given, self-appointed preacher (or hack novelist) wants it to be. The most absurd irony of Rapture theology is that its adherents believe they are being scriptural literalists when they are actually torturing the text beyond recognition to fit an externally derived fantasy of endtimes.

02-05-2007, 08:37 PM	#10
Roach Clips Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Winnipeg Manitoba Posts: 309	Okay, I get the general idea that this is all a bunch BS but do any particular Christian sects believe that non-believers will have a chance for salvation during the seven year tribulation following the rapture? Is there none that believe that?

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