Mike PSS

Keep posting Dave. I'm enjoying Mung Beans responses almost as much as he is.
:thumbs:

BWE

Right. It's like DNA evidence is to a crime scene.

Stephen T-B

Well I'm sorry folks. but beating Dave with reality won't help.
This: "...we YECs propose not just a flood with rain, but a humungous tectonic, hydraulic and volcanic cataclysm which completely resurfaced the entire globe" says it all.
Does the Genesis story mention any of this?
No.
It is a deperate attempt to reconcile a Bronze Age myth - and a particularly absurd one - with the world as we know it.
The ludicrous events proposed by the YECers are all part of the Big Magick which the story of the Flood represents.
And magick is wonderful - it can do absolutely anything and account for anything. No problem is too great for magick.
Magick always wins.
Just watch and see. Dave will prove that for us

Calilasseia

Stephen, I've already covered that at the Richard Dawkins forums.

To whit:

Thermodynamic exchanges taking place via the "vapour canopy" model result in wildly oscillating Earth temperatures - cold enough for breathable gases to solidify at one extreme, hot enough to melt Copper at the other;

Walt Brown's Hydroplate model contains an egregious violation of the Gas Laws (see here for a full explanation) in which the "fountains of the deep" cannot exist because the supposed "huge layer of subterranean water" would be superheated steam under the requisite physical conditions;

Baumgardner's runaway subduction model is not only based upon a computer simulation that fellow Los Alamos workers described as "seriously flawed" (while AiG, on the other hand, trumpeted that it was "the world's best computer simulation of geological processes - HAH!) but in order to generate runaway subduction, had to be pre-loaded with unphysical parameters that no accredited geologist would consider applicable to real Earth rocks;

Humphreys' accelerated nuclear decay scenario would have led to the Earth's core heating up to - wait for it - a whopping 10¹⁸⁰⁶ Kelvins, a temperature that is over one thousand seven hundred magnitudes hotter than the universe was during the first Planck Second of the Big Bang;

The more that YEC's beaver away to rescue genesis, the more they create wholesale absurdity on an epic scale.

mung bean

And that's why we love 'em.

mung bean

No Dave, there's nothing hard about it. Yes Dave, there is a problem you're not seeing.
It's sorta like the ol' elephant in the living room, except in this case instead of having a whacking great pachyderm hiding behind the sofa
we have the Mediterranean Sea hiding somewhere else on the planet.
All de little fishies kaput, Dave. Wasser go somewhere else.


Ok, let's take this in nice, little, bite-sized pieces. We'll deal with the situation around Aswan first. Now as you know the Palouse Canyon is mainly columnar basalt, which as you would expect from its name is already fractured into hexagonal columns. This makes it easier to erode in a large flood. Over at RDF I remember Deadman (try the toads, mate. They're excellent!) mentioning that there are columns of basalt that made it all the way down to the sea. They were just snapped off and carried along.
The Aswan bedrock isn't columnar basalt. It's a bloody great solid block of granite. Even under the same conditions as at Palouse Canyon it will not respond the same way.

The next thing to consider is the cross-sectional shape of the Nile Canyon at Aswan. Have a look at the pic again.


Now as you can clearly see there is a much deeper section eroded out in the centre. How did this happen? If you're going to postulate a massive flash flood wouldn't you expect a fairly broad canyon? The cross-sectional shape at Aswan is completely different to Palouse Canyon. Isn't the fact that the river bed at Aswan is narrow and deep more consistent with slow erosion by a constant but relatively small volume of water? That's what most people would expect.
You know, a stream gradually cutting its way deeper and deeper. Into solid granite. To a depth of around 800 feet. What think you, Dave?



Ok Dave, time to put on our thinking caps, yes?
If your Flud happened (and I freely admit that at this stage I regard it as a load of batshit insane dribbling bollocks) then any surface feature it filled with sediment must be a pre-Flud feature. With me so far?
Righty, now you claim that there's a humungous global layer of Flud sediment up to a couple of miles thick. A deep river canyon would be expected to fill up with said sediment. How come the marine sediment at Aswan is only 400 feet deep, Dave? Why don't it fill teh canyon? Wossup wit dat, me ol' china?

Then we have the freshwater sediment on top. Lotsa mud there, Dave.
How did it get there? You can't claim it was deposited by a catastrophic flood. Why not? Well, coz if there was a humungous volume of water chundering down teh canyon at huge rate of knots it would scour sediment out, not fucking deposit it. IOW, the freshwater sediment must have been deposited by a relatively slow moving body of water over a relatively long period of time.
How much sediment do you reckon the Nile carries, Dave? How long do you think it'd take for 450 feet of it to build up?


PS: Note to any science professionals reading this.
I don't claim to be qualified in any particular field so if you spot any errors please point them out. Thanks.

BWE

Ghaak! Granite dave. Granite.

Ask yourself this question: Where do we see granite as a result of vulcanism?

Bedrock. I.Q.

Occam's Aftershave

Dave, I know damn well you've seen this before - it's even on the list of questions you cowardly ignore

Here is the Earth Impact Database, a list maintained by the Planetary and Space Science Center of major impact craters that have been identified on the Earth. There are currently 174 such sites ranging in diameter from 15 meters to 300 kilometers in diameter.

More importantly, they range in radiometric dates from a few thousand years ago to over 2 billion years ago

Structure Name ...Age (Ma)
Sikhote Alin 0.000059
Wabar 0.00014
Haviland < 0.001
Sobolev < 0.001
Ilumetsä > 0.002
Campo Del Cielo < 0.004
Kaalijärv 0.004 ± 0.001
Henbury .0042 ± 0.0019
Macha < 0.007
Morasko < 0.01
Tenoumer 0.0214 ± 0.0097
Barringer 0.049 ± 0.003
Odessa < 0.05
Lonar 0.052 ± 0.006
Boxhole .0540 ± 0.0015
Amguid < 0.1
Rio Cuarto < 0.1
Tswaing (formerly Pretoria Saltpan)0.220 ± 0.052
Dalgaranga ~ 0.27
Wolfe Creek < 0.3
Zhamanshin 0.9 ± 0.1
Veevers < 1
Monturaqui < 1
Bosumtwi 1.07
New Quebec 1.4 ± 0.1
Kalkkop < 1.8
Talemzane < 3
Aouelloul 3.0 ± 0.3
El'gygytgyn 3.5 ± 0.5
Roter Kamm 3.7 ± 0.3
Kara-Kul < 5
Karla 5 ± 1
Bigach 5 ± 3
Steinheim 15 ± 1
Ries 15.1 ± 0.1
Chesapeake Bay 35.5 ± 0.3
Popigai 35.7 ± 0.2
Flaxman > 35
Crawford > 35
Mistastin 36.4 ± 4
Wanapitei 37.2 ± 1.2
Haughton 39
Logancha 40 ± 20
Beyenchime-Salaatin 40 ± 20
Logoisk 42.3 ± 1.1
Shunak 45 ± 10
Ragozinka 46 ± 3
Chiyli 46 ± 7
Kamensk 49.0 ± 0.2
Gusev 49.0 ± 0.2
Goat Paddock < 50
Montagnais 50.50 ± 0.76
Marquez 58 ± 2
Connolly Basin < 60
Chicxulub 64.98 ± 0.05
Vista Alegre < 65
Eagle Butte < 65
Boltysh 65.17 ± 0.64
Vargeao Dome < 70
Tin Bider < 70
Ouarkziz < 70
Chukcha < 70
Kara 70.3 ± 2.2
Lappajärvi 73.3 ± 5.3
Manson 73.8 ± 0.3
Zeleny Gai 80 ± 20
Wetumpka 81.0 ± 1.5
Dellen 89.0 ± 2.7
Steen River 91 ± 7
Avak 3 - 95
Kentland < 97
Deep Bay 99 ± 4
Sierra Madera < 100
Mount Toondina < 110
Carswell 115 ± 10
Oasis < 120
B.P. Structure < 120
Rotmistrovka 120 ± 10
Mien 121.0 ± 2.3
Tookoonoka 128 ± 5
Arkenu 1 < 140
Arkenu 2 < 140
Mjølnir 142.0 ± 2.6
Gosses Bluff 142.5 ± 0.8
Morokweng 145.0 ± 0.8
Tabun-Khara-Obo 150 ± 20
Liverpool 150 ± 70
Vepriai > 160 ± 10
Zapadnaya 165 ± 5
Puchezh-Katunki 167 ± 3
Obolon' 169 ± 7
Upheaval Dome < 170
Kgagodi < 180
Viewfield 190 ± 20
Cloud Creek 190 ± 30
Riachao Ring < 200
Red Wing 200 ± 25
Wells Creek 200 ± 100
Manicouagan 214 ± 1
Rochechouart 214 ± 8
Saint Martin 220 ± 32
Karikkoselkä ~ 230
Araguainha 244.4 ± 3.25
Gow < 250
Kursk 250 ± 80
Des Plaines < 280
Ternovka 280 ± 10
Clearwater East 290 ± 20
Clearwater West 290 ± 20
Dobele 290 ± 35
Serra da Cangalha < 300
Middlesboro < 300
Ile Rouleau < 300
Decaturville < 300
Mishina Gora 300 ± 50
Serpent Mound < 320
Crooked Creek 320 ± 80
Charlevoix 342 ± 15
Gweni-Fada < 345
Aorounga < 345
West Hawk 351 ± 20
Piccaninny < 360
Flynn Creek 360 ± 20
Woodleigh 364 ± 8
Siljan 376.8 ± 1.7
Ilyinets 378 ± 5
Kaluga 380 ± 5
Elbow 395 ± 25
Brent 396 ± 20
Nicholson < 400
La Moinerie 400 ± 50
Glasford < 430
Pilot 445 ± 2
Slate Islands ~ 450
Calvin 450 ± 10
Tvären ~ 455
Kärdla ~ 455
Ames 470 ± 30
Neugrund ~ 470
Granby ~ 470
Presqu'ile < 500
Newporte < 500
Glover Bluff < 500
Gardnos 500 ± 10
Mizarai 500 ± 20
Rock Elm < 505
Glikson < 508
Lawn Hill > 515
Foelsche > 545
Holleford 550 ± 100
Kelly West > 550
Sääksjärvi ~ 560
Spider > 570
Acraman ~ 590
Söderfjärden ~ 600
Beaverhead ~ 600
Saarijärvi > 600
Strangways 646 ± 42
Jänisjärvi 700 ± 5
Suvasvesi N < 1000
Lumparn ~ 1000
Iso-Naakkima > 1000
Goyder < 1400
Shoemaker (formerly Teague) 1630 ± 5
Amelia Creek 1640 - 600
Keurusselkä < 1800
Paasselkä < 1800
Sudbury 1850 ± 3
Yarrabubba ~ 2000
Vredefort 2023 ± 4
Suavjärvi ~ 2400

Even taking into account your A.N.D. fantasy, can you tell us which of these impacts occurred early in the year of the flood and which occurred later?

KINDA OFF TOPIC BUT DAMN INTERESTING! Italian researchers may have finally found a chunk of the meteor that caused the 1908 Tunguska explosion in Siberia! link to story

BWE

Dave, this one should almost get you to spooge.

It talks about the relative blink of an eye, catastrophic time frame of 1000 years and lots of neat stuff. You can send it to all your little truth molesters you hang out with. You can all get a dose of jollies.

cajela

Except for Mt Ararat, curiously enough.