shalak

First of all let me say I am a recently de-converted Christian who is an atheist but I am still examining textual issues specifically with the NT.

I was wondering if someone could direct me to some other scholars Besides Ehrman on the subject of the NT's history, compilation etc.

I have heard the name Richard Carrier and maybe Doug Burleson as secular scholars and I was wondering who else would be a recommended reading? I was also wondering if someone had any of the prominent theistic scholars in mind as well so I can examine both sides of the issue. I still attend a Christian university so I will be finding a lot of the theistic support there I imagine but I still would like to know if any of you had recommendations for that side as well.

As far as both the theistic side and the secular side are concerned I would prefer to stay away from sensational books and rather stick to the ones who don't seem to be so emotionally invested in the subject. I have read an article on the formation of the NT canon by Richard Carrier on the infidels website but I am unfamiliar with any of his other writings. Carrier did not seem to be emotional in his discussion so I think he would be a good example of what I mean by emotionally de-invested in the subject. I will be gathering my own list of secular/non-secular scholars but I figured some of you have done a lot of reading on this subject and may be able to point me in some valuable directions.

ApostateAbe

"As far as both the theistic side and the secular side are concerned I would prefer to stay away from sensational books and rather stick to the ones who don't seem to be so emotionally invested in the subject."

Yeah, it is sort of a frustrating pattern: the published authors of books on the subject tend to promote unique and/or ideological points of view for their niche audiences. Books like that fill the bookshelves and catalogs, and Richard Carrier is certainly no exception.

Leaves few authors besides Bart Ehrman, right? Well, there are others. There are qualified secular authors besides Ehrman, with good reputations, who have written about the development of the New Testament canon and who are appropriate for lay readers. Such authors would be:

Walter Bauer
Harry Gamble
David Aune
B. H. Streeter
Robert Stein
Bruce Metzger

Steven Carr

Abe considers Bruce Metzger 'secular'.


'He stayed at Princeton as a Teaching Fellow in New Testament Greek. On April 11, 1939, he was ordained in the Presbyterian Church in the U.S.A. which after mergers is now known as the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)'

So much for Abe's grasp of fact.

Steven Carr

Abe considers B.H. Streeter 'secular'

'Streeter was ordained in 1899 and was a member of the Archbishop’s Commission on Doctrine in the Church of England (from 1922 to 1937)

So much for Abe's grasp of fact.

Steven Carr

Abe considers David Aune 'secular'.


David Aune is Associate Editor of the Catholic Biblical Quarterly.

So much for Abe's grasp of fact.

Steven Carr

Abe considers Robert H. Stein 'secular'

'The author, Professor Dr. Robert H. Stein, is Senior Professor of New Testament Interpretation at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Louisville, KY. He previously taught at Bethel Seminary ...'

So much for Abe's grasp of fact.

Toto

In NT studies, the divide is not so much between secular and theistic, but between secular scholars, many of whom are believers but at least try to approach the topic from a secular point of view, and evangelical Christian scholars. The primary difference is that evangelical Christians accept and embrace the possibility of supernatural causes and events.

Richard Carrier is a recent PhD in history with a specialty in science in the ancient world, and a Masters in Philosophy. He is not a textual critic; his essay on the formation of the New Testament Canon
was a summary of Bruce Metzger's book The Canon of the New Testament: Its Origin, Development, and Significance (or via: amazon.co.uk). But I think you would like what he has written; you can find his essays on his website, www.richardcarrier.info or in the Modern Library section of www.infidels.org .

A good place to start for you would be Burton Mack's Who Wrote the New Testament (or via: amazon.co.uk).

The only Doug Burleson I find on the web is a preacher and an evangelical scholar.

hjalti

That 'secular' guy is probably an inerrantist. :facepalm:

shalak

Well to be honest I don't really think that it is a balanced approach to immediately disregard something someone wrote simply because they happen to be a Christian. If that person is writing something while removing their theological convictions and decides to not insert them I think that it would be relevant.

Although not a perfect example K.A. Kitchen's book on the Reliability of the Old Testament (I did not read most of it mostly the summaries and skimmed some of it) appears to not be as polarized as most books would be. His convictions do come through the woodwork with some of his offhand comments he decides to make which I think weaken his but definitely a lot better than most I suspect.

To be fair just like a Christian author may ignore some evidence that may be contrary to their belief I could say the same for an atheist author. Unfortunately my request for unbiased/non-sensational may leave out too much of the relevant material. If that is the case I suppose I would rather just have the best/brightest from both sides and just weigh the evidence independent of the presuppositions of the authors. Also Bruce Metzger may be a Presbyterian but depending on how he writes he may very well be a very good source on the subject. I find it likely that both believing and non-believing scholars have contributed to the field not just the secular ones.

Unfortunately the fear of not finding many unbiased sources appears to be a very real reality. The best I may be able to get really is at least an author who does not pre-suppose his conclusion at the introduction of his book but guides you along his path via evidence that led him to his conclusion. I have heard a claim that Bart Ehrman does ignore a lot of the oppositions comments and that a lot of his contradiction have been dealt with for quite some time now. I have not read up on all of these solved issues but I am wondering if Ehrman really is adding that much to the field with his NY bestsellers/spinoffs of his NY bestsellers.

I would like to go back to Kitchen for a moment. Let me say I know virtually nothing about the field of biblical archaeology, recent developments, etc so I cannot assess if Kitchen is leaving a lot out. What I can say though his Kitchen does not preach but goes through a process of examining parts of the OT and giving the biblical view and then giving what evidence there is from the related secular history of the time. For example he mentions the chronology of the kings in Chronicles/Kings I believe and mentions secular sources which at least confirm that it appears the chronologies appear to be in the right order if nothing else. That of course is dealing with post-davidic ideas but he does get into david/solomon and does reveal the issue of a lack of contemporary information. Although he does claim/think that there may be at least mention of the Davidic dynasty by name in an ancient source and I do not recall his evidence/conclusion enough to say it here.

I really do feel that Kitchen's style may be the best I could hope for though considering how it was approached. This is of course assuming he didn't leave a whole lot of other evidence out etc but it his specific style I am referring to. Btw thank you Toto for pointing out where the real divide actually lies. That means I most certainly want to stay away from evangelical scholars unless they are providing something that is a lot more than simply preaching/theology with a slight historical spin. As I said their primary beliefs don't concern me as much as how they actually approach the subject.

I will definitely check out Carrier and probably Metzger and Mack; What other scholars would you guys recommend given the fact I am not looking for completely unbiased ones anymore?

Gorit Maqueda

I enjoyed 'The Pre-Nicene New Testament', by Robert M. Price.