Geetarmoore

I don't really care if Socrates existed or not as a historical figure. His followers aren't trying to bring about Armageddon based on some 2000 year old myth. As soon as the Socratarians start pushing toward a doomsday apocalypse, then I'll research more.....

Dargo

This thread reminds me of one from several months ago where Scientologist whichphilosophy was asked to present evidence supporting Hubbard's claims. Scientologists and Christians seem to have remarkably similar ideas about what constitutes evidence for their respected religions. It mainly consists of dogma, biased sources, and lots of attempts to change the topic.

Atheos

Would the Hindu myths qualify (over 2600 years and still going strong), or do you consider them as authoritative as your particular superstition? I also hear the Mormons are pretty strongly entrenched although they're admittedly based on a hoax that happened 'only' 180 years ago. That Joseph Smith, he sure knew how to pull off a good one.

-Atheos

Celine

I don't think anyone observing most of these debates between theists and nontheists can help noticing a fundamental "crosstalking" concerning the basic natures of evidence, support-of-claim, proof, and so on.
Myself, I've been lately contemplating whether this in itself -- the diametrically different notions of what truly is "evidence" -- that engenders the conflicts.
E.g.:
The Theists: "For my first source, I cite the authorative text of ___."
Nontheist: "First of all, that's not 'authoratitive/sacred,' it's contradictory and questionable...."
Theist: "It is not. It has guided spiritual conduct for ___ amount of years."
Nontheist: "People believe all kinds of things. That's not evidence."

and on and on we go.

Chidori

Extra Biblical Evidence For Jesus?

I have been through every page of this thread and still can't find the post containing the information, or the link to the information.

PV, can you either post the information again, or post the link?

Dean Anderson

If the Hindo myths don't, then Islam surely does. That Mohammed eh? What a joker. Claiming to have had the Quran dictated to him by the Angel Gabriel. No-one would believe that for a minute - and you certainly wouldn't have people dying for his lies over a thousand years later...

seraphimkawaii

Uhm...I'm asking about JESUS, not evolution. You know, what this whole thread is about. If you want to go on about evolution, do so in the appropriate forum.

Zucco

Name another hoax that had an institution as powerful and brutal as the Catholic chuch forcing it upon the world for 1500 years.

funinspace

Been there, done that for 15 years of my adult life, after growing up in a liberal protestant church…Independent Bible Churches with Baptist tendencies. Oh, and it did change my mind, but I don't think that's what you meant

OldYgg

Where shall I start using the bible to lead my life? Shall I find a witch and not suffer her to exist?

The 'miracle' of life - is not explained in the passages of the bible. Nor is it explained by stumping on my head and saying 'I can't explain it, it just is, but isn't it beauteous and there is now way this could have happened by chance!'

But once again, you do nothing to stay on topic - hence my insulting words because you insult my intelligence.

Why don't you do something useful and look up something that happened historically around that time and see how many resources there are that talk about what happened, where it happened and the effects of its happening.

Hell, I'll start you off. Caius Julius Caesar was murdered. Find first person (in our case translated) evidence that this happened, what happened to the people who did it and the changes in the Emporers (edited: the next emprorer after Julius) lifestyle after that occurrence (say the creation of the Praetorian Guard).

Now, if you reach out and find this first-person evidence, court documents, written-then historical documents - tell me, what is more important - the creation and then destruction of a half-god/half-man - this demigod and his bringing the word of the lord or the death of a terrestrial king and its repurcussions?

So, we should compare the resources in these two and what can we consider to have actually happened and which that may have happened, but we don't have enough documentation?

What details of each are corroborated by multiple documents, eye-witness testimony?

Think, Man! Stay on target! (Stay on Topic, but hey that was my Star Wars reference for the day)...

You might personally believe that Jesus existed, but you cannot attempt to prove that existence given the current documentation - at least not to another person outside of yourself that doesn't have a prediliction or bias that Jesus existed!

Just as you would have a great deal of difficulty using the historical evidence to prove that Caesar did not exist, or even the detail that he was murdered was incorrect.

Old Ygg