Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sven · 07-15-2004, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mageth

It's not too surprising that prayer may indeed have a placebo effect (the placebo effect is a well-documented phenomenon), that praying and expecting a prayer to be answered can favorably dispose one towards realizing the answer.

As far as you personally having "many prayers answered", I would guess that you have also had many, if not most, prayers go unanswered, or at least not answered in the way you expected or desired. We all tend to remember and report on the successes, while forgetting the failures.

I might add, exactly for these two reasons (placebo and only counting the hits while forgetting the misses), studies in pharmacy and medicine are conducted double-blind if possible.

And guess what? Most prayer studies so far turned out that prayers have no or only very little benefit; all (?) studies suggesting great effects have turned out to be either fraud or conducted sloppily. Doesn't look to well for your god...

Kosh · 07-15-2004, 09:34 AM

Tell ya what, converted

Why don't you start another thread and list all the prayers that have been "answered" in your life (you might need to include the circumstances, etc), and we'll evaluate each one to see if it doesn't have normal, everyday explanations.

Uni · 07-15-2004, 10:33 AM

I corinthians 15:5

and that he was seen of ce' phas, then of the twelve...

except judas was already dead...so how exactly did that work?

Uni · 07-15-2004, 10:38 AM

I timothy 2:12

but i suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
vs.

titus 2:3

the aged woman likewise, that they be in behavior as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things:

Magus55 · 07-15-2004, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uni

I corinthians 15:5

and that he was seen of ce' phas, then of the twelve...

except judas was already dead...so how exactly did that work?

Paul used it as a figurative title. The twelve is what they were called, even if all weren't present. Its just a generic title for the Apostles. Some older manuscripts however do say "the Eleven" instead.

Magus55 · 07-15-2004, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uni

I timothy 2:12

but i suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
vs.

titus 2:3

the aged woman likewise, that they be in behavior as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things:

1 Timothy 2:12 refers to women teaching in a church, on matters of doctrine and interpretation. Not all teaching is prohibited, only that which is in a church setting.

Ellis14 · 07-15-2004, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus55

1 Timothy 2:12 refers to women teaching in a church, on matters of doctrine and interpretation. Not all teaching is prohibited, only that which is in a church setting.

"nor to usurp authority over the man"

Is this just meant in a church setting as well?

Magus55 · 07-15-2004, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellis10

"nor to usurp authority over the man"

Is this just meant in a church setting as well?

Yeah, looks like a parallel to me - women are not to teach. . . over a man, and in the context of Tim 2, its referring to the teaching of faith and doctrine.

Ellis14 · 07-15-2004, 01:27 PM

I see where you're coming from, but I don't see it that way. The bible makes a point of saying that women aren't allowed to teach, or exercise authority over a man. Not: a brother, a disciple, a minister, another teacher, an elder etc: 'No authority over a man'.

Magus55 · 07-15-2004, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellis10

I see where you're coming from, but I don't see it that way. The bible makes a point of saying that women aren't allowed to teach, or exercise authority over a man. Not: a brother, a disciple, a minister, another teacher, an elder etc: 'No authority over a man'.

But the previous context shows that its related to issues dealing with faith and doctrine. It doesn't say over anything. And while I don't see it as a contradiction, I think its a silly issue to argue over since no one listens to it anyway.

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07-15-2004, 09:34 AM	#442
Kosh Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Orions Belt Posts: 3,911	Tell ya what, converted Why don't you start another thread and list all the prayers that have been "answered" in your life (you might need to include the circumstances, etc), and we'll evaluate each one to see if it doesn't have normal, everyday explanations.

07-15-2004, 10:33 AM	#443
Uni Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: U.S. Posts: 71	I corinthians 15:5 and that he was seen of ce' phas, then of the twelve... except judas was already dead...so how exactly did that work?

07-15-2004, 10:38 AM	#444
Uni Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: U.S. Posts: 71	I timothy 2:12 but i suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. vs. titus 2:3 the aged woman likewise, that they be in behavior as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things:

07-15-2004, 01:27 PM	#449
Ellis14 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: England Posts: 3,934	I see where you're coming from, but I don't see it that way. The bible makes a point of saying that women aren't allowed to teach, or exercise authority over a man. Not: a brother, a disciple, a minister, another teacher, an elder etc: 'No authority over a man'.

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