TedM

Robert M Price says the following with regard to extrabiblical sources about Jesus:


beginning about 6:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bz6D...endscreen&NR=1

mountainman

Negative evidence: The Great Silence of the 1st Century.

Immediately after the cited transcription above Price goes on to discuss the Tacitus and Pliny reference to Christians without once mentioning the fact that both the Tacitus and the Pliny manuscripts were "suddenly found" in the 15th century.

Price then includes Josephus as a source for the historical Jesus.



To be fair he later says he is not dogmatic on any question.
And other disclaimers.

stephan huller

Price's right about that.

aa5874

Robert Price seems to have forgotten that if there was an actual Jesus and people were writing books and letters about him then it must be expected that Jesus was well known and talked about more than even Emperors of Rome.

It is just not logical at all that we would expect little or no extrabiblical sources if the Gospels are true where some Jew named Jesus was regarded as a God, was believed to have performed miracles that no other human could have done, had thousands of people following him on a daily basis and that Paul was "All over" the Roman Empire preaching his revealed gospel about the crucifixion and resurrection of God's Son.

How is it possible that 27 books and letters were written about Jesus and that people Preached ABOUT Jesus all over the Roman Empire in the 1st century and we have NOTHING--No arguments--No conflicts???

The fact is people are looking in the wrong century. It is the 2nd century that the Jesus story originated.

Look in the 2nd century and you will see EXTRA-BIBLICAL stuff.

We will see extra-biblical arguments and conflicts about the Jesus stories in the 2nd century authors and cults like Aristides, Justin Martyr, Melito, Lucian, Celsus, Marcion, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Minucius Felix "Octavius", the Ebionites, Cerinthus, Carpocrates, Basilides and others.

Iskander

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Bl...sage.aspx/4483

Who is rabbi kook?
Rav Avraham Yitzchak HaCohen Kook
http://www.ravkooktorah.org/timeline.htm

Tenorikuma

I have heard no indication in Price's recent podcasts that he thinks either Josephus reference is legitimate. But he says it wouldn't amount to much even if they were.

aa5874

If the NT is historically accurate then Jesus was the single most significant Jew of the 1st century . Even before the Fall of the Temple Jesus became a Jewish God and was worshiped by Jews and people of the Roman Empire.

In Acts, thousands of Jews were being converted to the Jesus cult and Paul was envangelising the Roman Empire.

In a few decades, before c 64 CE, Jesus was well established as God's Son and Universal Savior who was Sacrificed by God for the Remission of Sins.

Jesus was NOW a God of a New Religion--Every Knee should bow to the Jesus because he had a name above every name--even above the Defied Emperors of Rome.

By c 64 CE, Jesus was LORD and Savior, God the Creator in the NT.

But for 150 years after the supposed birth of the Son of God, NOBODY wrote anything about him outside the NT.

Outside the NT, the Jews were still looking for their Messiah sometime around c 70 CE and 60 years later at c 130 CE.
Vespasian was deeemed the prophesied Messianic ruler as predicted in Jewish writings and he also did Miracles.

We know exactly when the Jesus character was invented.

Jesus, the Son of God, was invented in the 2nd century when we find Non-biblical arguments and controversies surrounding the nature of his existence, what he did, and what he said.

No NT manuscript has ever been recovered and dated to the 1st century.

None will ever be.

TedM

So aa, I take it you disagree with Price (quoted again below). In what way do you disagree? Why would contemporary Roman or Jewish non-believers be expected to write about Jesus?

Sheshbazzar

he'ney! Behold! The Prophet hath written!

Now we will wait and see if the prophecy be a true one... Or if the Prophet doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

tanya

Hi Ted, for what little it is worth, I don't accept Price's endorsement of the claim that Josephus wrote about Jesus.

I never met General MacArthur. I could about him, perhaps a sentence, without using the internet, just relying on gossip from friends, and acquaintances.

How reliable would my single sentence be, do you suppose?

Why would Josephus, a Jew, write about someone obviously hostile to Jewish doctrine? It makes no sense at all. What makes a lot of sense, at least to me, is that Christians needed an authority to acknowledge the historicity of a phantom.

I don't know why they picked Josephus, who lived half a century after Jesus' supposed execution, instead of choosing Philo, a contemporary, who makes no mention of Jesus at all.

I share aa5874's enthusiasm for denying that any reference will ever be found to prove that Captain Yossarian ever flew in any plane in Italy in 1943-45. Yossarian is a fictional character, just like Jesus.