Zwaarddijk

If we are to speak about Judaism - which this thread will do regardless of whether it's about Christianity or not, since Judaism is relevant to the topic, observing Judaism and describing what we find is what we should do, no? NOT ARM-CHAIR THEOLOGIZING and telling members of a religion they got their religion wrong in the first place.

I do argue from first principles - this is judaism because the word Judaism signifies the religion held by the Jewish community; sure, it's circular in one sense, but words are used as signifiers of things, and if want to know what Judaism teaches, we have to observe the religion, not make up shit about what Judaism should be from one's own preferred doctrine.

I guess you are too incapable of such reasoning, considering the quality of your input in other threads.

sotto voce

We are not. We are to discuss the necessity of Christianity's relationship to Judaism, and no branch of supposed Christianity takes a blind bit of notice of rabbinical writings. It effectively means discussion of the Old Testament, as it is called, and not any who call themselves Jews, or what such people may think fit to read.

This thread is not an excuse for antichrist works-justification propaganda.

As if there's a shortage.

Zwaarddijk

... I rest my case and ignore you henceforth.

Toto

Chili's posts and attempts to understand them have been split to here

Brendan Rizzo

So, if we can get back to the original topic...

The Marcionites were allegedly an attempt to purge all Judaic influence from Christianity. All we know of the Marcionites comes from the sources of their enemies, but that is all we have to go on until we discover a Marcionite text hidden in the desert somewhere.

These (admittedly biased) sources claim that Marcion claimed that the God of the Old Testament was completely different from Jesus Christ, and was in fact Satan. Therefore, if the Marcionites had taken power instead of the Orthodox Christians, I can only imagine that Christianity would be even more antisemitic than it turned out to be in reality.

Iskander

As you say, we know nothing or next to nothing about Marcion, but what it is said about him and his followers make them sinister and undesirable.

Duvduv

As a bogeyman he served the purpose of building up the official ideology. Conveniently the emerging church couldn't even provide surviving texts or anything substantive about him. His status grew among the apologists as needed. Even "Justin" forgot to mention anything about Marcion's writings or anything else.

sotto voce

The devil's church, that is.

Slow thinker, the devil. Thick as shit, that guy.

sotto voce

'I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, the people of Israel.' Ro 9:3-4 NIV

I think you've got the wrong forum, Brendan. You may not be the only one, of course.

Sheshbazzar

You know, I agree with you. That Church described as the Great Whore and The Mother of Whores.
Mother and daughters Whores alike, The church with the mark, and the image, and the name, enslaved to ha'Satan and bound for that lake of fire burning with brimstone.

.