Sign Related

Jesus never claimed to be the Son of God or the Son of man. And the message among to his sayings aint even as these Christians claim it to be at all.

So what's with the obvious lies?

Toto

You can't use the Bible to prove that the Bible is true, but can you use the Bible to prove that the Bible is false?

In any case, I think this might do better in GRD.

Phishfood

News to me. He never said he was Son of God? care to expound?

-Pf

WCH

He was hardly explicit on the subject, but implied it... in any case, I wouldn't call it "obvious lies." Saying Jesus opposed homosexuality, etc, however, would be.

Wiploc

Why isn't, "Jesus never claimed to be the Son of God or the Son of man," an obvious lie? If we don't know that he even existed, how can be be sure what he did or didn't claim if he did exist?

Maybe you could reduce your claim to something like, "The bible never says Jesus claimed ...."

crc

Mageth

I'd comment that it's quite lost to us as to what Jesus actually said or did not say. In other words, we do not know whether Jesus ever said he was the Son of God or not. There are places in the Gospels where he allegedly hinted that he was the Son of God (see John 3:16), but we don't know whether he actually said those things or if they were later embellishments by those who came to believe he was the Son of God. In any case, there is no record in the NT of Jesus actually saying "I am the Son of God."

Phishfood

I had heard that it was common for Jews to refer to themselves as "sons of god," and that it wouldn't have been strange at all for Jesus to say he was a son of god. Now imagine if 'a' and 'the' had somewhere been transposed.

of course, this is just something I had heard, and it doesn't explain why such a fuss would have come from a simple transposition, so if you want to destroy this notion go ahead. i wont take it pesonally.

-Pf

Mageth, thanks for clarifying a bit.

Diogenes the Cynic

In context, "Son of Man" and "Son of God" are not claims to divinity anyway.

"Son of Man" (or Son of Adam) was an idiomatic way to say "human being." Daniel called the Messiah "One like a son of man" (meaning that the Messiah would be a human being) and somewhere along the line, the phrase became a way to allude to the Messiah but it's pretty hard to tell if any "Son of Man" sayings in the gospels are authentic to Jesus (assuming he exsted at all) and even if they are, whether he meant them to be self-referential or titular or whether he meant them be sayings about people in general.

"Son of God" was used to refer to people who were chosen or favored by God and was associated especially with Kings.

I personally don't believe that Jesus ever claimed to be the Messiah or the King of the Jews (which were really the same claim) but even if he did, those were still not assertions of personal godhood.

Notsri

In the Gospel of John Jesus refers to himself as the Son or the Son of God in at least the following places: 3:16-18; 5:25; 9:35; 10:36; 11:4. In 10:36, he says

Diogenes the Cynic

There is no "a" in Greek. There is no indefinite article. You can only say "the."