Freethought & Rationalism Archive

PJLazy · 09-21-2012, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Carr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Don't hold your breath.

Creationists also don't hold their breath waiting for evolutionists to produce every single transitional fossil in the development from fish to man.

They know that ain't going to happen, so they can always rebut claims that evolution took place.

Same with historicists. Show us all the steps in the development of the myth, they cry smugly.

Well, it ain't going to happen.

After all, we all know that Christianity took off because people started to think that a crucified criminal was the agent through whom God created the universe - a bit like people starting to believe that Lee Harvey Oswald had been the True President of the United States. Mythicists can't compete with such a straightforward, clear explanation of the origin of Christianity that anybody can see is quite reasonable.

So you believe in a historical Jesus or you just don't know what this debate is actually about?

aa5874 · 09-21-2012, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJLazy

...I have no clue what you are trying to say..

What are you saying?? You have NOT produced any credible sources for your Jesus yet is INVENTING all sorts of stories.

Where did you get you stories from about your Jesus??

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJLazy

1. Give me a 10-15 year period when the myth began.
2. Give me the area of the world where it was created.
3. Give me the groups of people who were deceived and converted.
4. Give me the earliest credible source for Jesus and Christians, in your opinion.
5. Do not give me insults or tangents.

1. The Myth began in the 2nd century based on Recovered dated Texts.

2. The Myth was Created OUTSIDE Judea in the 2nd century.

3. Non-Jews were deceived in the 2nd century.

4. There is NO Credible source for Jesus, however there were people called Christians in the 2nd century.

Now, Please, tell us the history of your Jesus. I hope you don't use the NT because in the NT Jesus was NOT a human being--the Son of a Ghost.

You must know that there is an On Going Quest for an HJ.

I must alert you.

HJers are right now looking for their Jesus. They can't find him for Hundreds of years.

If you found your Jesus tell us where you found him.

PJLazy · 09-22-2012, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJLazy

...I have no clue what you are trying to say..

What are you saying?? You have NOT produced any credible sources for your Jesus yet is INVENTING all sorts of stories.

Where did you get you stories from about your Jesus??

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJLazy

1. Give me a 10-15 year period when the myth began.
2. Give me the area of the world where it was created.
3. Give me the groups of people who were deceived and converted.
4. Give me the earliest credible source for Jesus and Christians, in your opinion.
5. Do not give me insults or tangents.

1. The Myth began in the 2nd century based on Recovered dated Texts.

2. The Myth was Created OUTSIDE Judea in the 2nd century.

3. Non-Jews were deceived in the 2nd century.

4. There is NO Credible source for Jesus, however there were people called Christians in the 2nd century.

Four chances and you couldn't commit to a single specific answer...what a pity.

aa5874 · 09-22-2012, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

1. The Myth began in the 2nd century based on Recovered dated Texts.

2. The Myth was Created OUTSIDE Judea in the 2nd century.

3. Non-Jews were deceived in the 2nd century.

4. There is NO Credible source for Jesus, however there were people called Christians in the 2nd century.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJLazy

Four chances and you couldn't commit to a single specific answer...what a pity.

You were asked to provide the history of your Jesus.

Let us see if you can tell us:

1. When your Jesus began to preach.

2. Where your Jesus preached.

3. Who were Decieved by your Jesus.

4. The earliest Credible sources for your Jesus.

In the NT Jesus was NOT a human being, he was the Son of a Ghost, God the Creator, that walked on water, transfigured, resurrected ands asecended in a cloud.

Tell me about your HJ. Your HJ survived his execution?????

ApostateAbe · 09-22-2012, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMacSon

Best explanation for what? "If" is the most common word in historical Jesus discussions ....

Information that is not reliable is of dubious evidence: something not beyond reasonable doubt is not reliable.

You have the same bar as a criminal court. What about just going with the explanation that explains the evidence best, be the evidence reliable or unreliable? I take it as obvious that the gospels are unreliable, but that is not the key question. One way or the other, the gospels correspond to what ancient Christians BELIEVED. So, how do we best explain those beliefs? With a human Jesus or a merely-mythical Jesus? One of those options has plausibility and the othe other does not. Are you with me so far?

Spanky · 09-22-2012, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

LOL? It sounds more or less accurate, and not laughable.

The thing is, most mythicists think he is a good scholar in his particular area of textual criticism, who stepped out of his depth when he tried to talk about historicity.

Yes, I know, and I do think that Ehrman is still unprepared to take on the beast of pseudo-scholarship that is Jesus-mythicism, though he is a foremost expert on the historical Jesus. I had friends who were very much into astrology. Astrology is both very complex and somewhat detached from modern astronomy, and astronomers would be out of their depth if they wanted to critically analyze astrology.

There is not a "facepalm" big enough. :facepalm:

MrMacSon · 09-22-2012, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMacSon

Best explanation for what? "If" is the most common word in historical Jesus discussions ....

Information that is not reliable is of dubious evidence: something not beyond reasonable doubt is not reliable.

You have the same bar as a criminal court. What about just going with the explanation that explains the evidence best, be the evidence reliable or unreliable? I take it as obvious that the gospels are unreliable, but that is not the key question. One way or the other, the gospels correspond to what ancient Christians BELIEVED. So, how do we best explain those beliefs? With a human Jesus or a merely-mythical Jesus? One of those options has plausibility and the othe other does not. Are you with me so far?

Appealing to what ancient Christians believed *when*? during 80-100AD/CE? During the 2nd century (101-200AD/CE?) 250-300AD/CE?

One thing that explains those beliefs is that they lived in the Messianic Age ...

At least you admit 'the gospels are unreliable'!!

A merely-mythical Jesus is more plausible as the basis for the NT stories, even if there were preachers or messiahs called Jesus in those times.

PJLazy · 09-22-2012, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

1. The Myth began in the 2nd century based on Recovered dated Texts.

2. The Myth was Created OUTSIDE Judea in the 2nd century.

3. Non-Jews were deceived in the 2nd century.

4. There is NO Credible source for Jesus, however there were people called Christians in the 2nd century.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJLazy

Four chances and you couldn't commit to a single specific answer...what a pity.

You were asked to provide the history of your Jesus.

Let us see if you can tell us:

1. When your Jesus began to preach.

2. Where your Jesus preached.

3. Who were Decieved by your Jesus.

4. The earliest Credible sources for your Jesus.

In the NT Jesus was NOT a human being, he was the Son of a Ghost, God the Creator, that walked on water, transfigured, resurrected ands asecended in a cloud.

Tell me about your HJ. Your HJ survived his execution?????

1. 25-30 AD
2. Judea/Galilee
3. Jews
4. Josephus, Polemny, Tacitas (off the top of my head)

aa5874 · 09-22-2012, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

You have the same bar as a criminal court. What about just going with the explanation that explains the evidence best, be the evidence reliable or unreliable? I take it as obvious that the gospels are unreliable, but that is not the key question. One way or the other, the gospels correspond to what ancient Christians BELIEVED. So, how do we best explain those beliefs? With a human Jesus or a merely-mythical Jesus? One of those options has plausibility and the othe other does not. Are you with me so far?

You don't know what you are talking about.

In a court, the NT would be a PERJURED Source and be THROWN out. Essentially, the NT would be considered a Pack of Lies.

Ehrman ADMITTED that the NT accounts of Jesus are filled with discrepancies and contradictions in matters both large and small. See "Did Jesus Exist?" page 182.

Such an admittance in a Court would almost certainly lead to a mis-trial.

aa5874 · 09-22-2012, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

You were asked to provide the history of your Jesus.

Let us see if you can tell us:

1. When your Jesus began to preach.

2. Where your Jesus preached.

3. Who were Decieved by your Jesus.

4. The earliest Credible sources for your Jesus.

In the NT Jesus was NOT a human being, he was the Son of a Ghost, God the Creator, that walked on water, transfigured, resurrected ands asecended in a cloud.

Tell me about your HJ. Your HJ survived his execution?????

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJLazy

1. 25-30 AD
2. Judea/Galilee
3. Jews
4. Josephus, Polemny, Tacitas (off the top of my head)

You have NOT presented the history of a human Jesus, you presented the "history" of the Son of a Ghost.

You merely used the Bible as a source of history when you know the Bible is a compilation of Myth Fables.

Please, it was Publicly Published in the Roman Empire and Accepted as True that Jesus the Son of a Holy Ghost was the Son of a God.

Does NOT Matthew 1.18 clearly state that the Jesus character was FATHERED by a Holy Ghost??

You cannot change the story. It is CAST in Stone. Jesus was a Myth Character just like Adam. Both Adam and Jesus had NO human father.

You cannot change the Creation story in Genesis. You cannot change the Conception of Jesus in gMatthew.

Please, you very well know that ONLY the forgeries in Josephus mentioned the name of Jesus.

No Apologetic writer ever claimed that Tacitus mentioned Jesus up to at least the 5th century--NONE.

Now, who is Polemny?? What did he write??

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