Freethought & Rationalism Archive

French Prometheus · 05-26-2004, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dado

it's not an offense, period. we are ALL sons (and daughters) of G-d. further, every Jew has the right to claim the title of Mashiak. there have been two attempted Messiah-ships in just the past 50 years, this stuff happens like clockwork.

You're right. It wasn't an offense. A fortiori it wasn't a capital offense.

French Prometheus · 05-26-2004, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Timothy G. Muse

In 2 Cor 4:4, it is written "The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." The truth is that unbelievers both cannot and do not want to submit to the Spirit, therefore you seek to throw off his fetters, and live as though you yourselves are gods, in complete control and determining both what is truth and your destiny.

At last!!! I love it when believers resort to this verse. It means that you've run out of arguments. I won

There's a similar verse in the Koran. I guess that's why you're not a Muslim. Allah hasn't endowed you with the ability to see the Truth.
Of course, it creates more problems than it solves : if unbelievers cannot understand God's message, what are you doing on this board debating us, blind infidels?
If we're "blind", how can we decide between your interpretation and that of a gay Christian who rejects Lev 18:22?

Edited to remove the following logical fallacy :
And why do believers still disagree on the true interpretation of the Bible, then?
But it's still a good question, though.

crazyfingers · 05-26-2004, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Timothy G. Muse

I guess you're right. I should deny the Spirit, he word of truth that has been preserved and upheld for generations leading men to both the promises and peace of God as well as to piety and practical living, deny my inward convictions and set aside Christ himself in whom I have found life, hope, wisdom, strength and joy,... to follow the ways of those who have none of above. ... Not in a million years, and not for all this world has to offer!

Still waiting for any shred of evidence that there is a Spirit and that the Bible has any theological truth at all.

French Prometheus · 05-26-2004, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magdlyn

As Paul has a docetic Christ, he can't be referring to earthly "princes." I do not know the original Greek for this term trans "princes," but it must refer to the Archons, the gnostic henchmen of the Demiurge (evil creator God), citizens of the spiritual realm. They were responsible for X's death, as Paul sees it. This understanding is carried down slightly in the belief some have that Satan (who some say is prince of this world, as he is seen offering it to X in the wilderness) was responsible for X's death.

In this online Ancient Greek version, the word used is "archonton" from "archegos" for which they provide the following translations :
1) the chief leader, prince 1a) of Christ 2) one that takes the lead in any thing and thus affords an example, a predecessor in a matter, pioneer 3) the author

Your interpretation is possible but I still think that here Paul discusses earthly princes. The NIV seems to agree with this interpretation too (the KJV "princes" become "rulers of this age"). But it's quite hard to be sure even within context.

Rev. Timothy G. Muse · 05-26-2004, 10:25 AM

What I also find humorous is this, you call me a liar. What is the standard you use? Am I to be judged by "your" wisdom, or "someone else's". The very fact that you acknowledge there is truth and untruth, right and wrong is a testimony of God's law written on your hearts. The only thing is that while you attest to the part of God's Word (there is right, wrong, and accountability) you deny the very same word when you proclaim there is no God and no accountability, ... your very practice condemns you.

Ever heard of "winning the battle, but losing the war?"

crazyfingers · 05-26-2004, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Timothy G. Muse

The very fact that you acknowledge there is truth and untruth, right and wrong is a testimony of God's law written on your hearts.

That is a statment of faith. You have faith in a god and then attribute things to it. However you have yet to demonstrate that a god exists.

Please do not confuse faith with fact or evidence. Faith exists independent of both and is an unreliable means of determining truth.

crazyfingers · 05-26-2004, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Timothy G. Muse

What I also find humorous is this, you call me a liar. What is the standard you use? Am I to be judged by "your" wisdom, or "someone else's". The very fact that you acknowledge there is truth and untruth, right and wrong is a testimony of God's law written on your hearts. The only thing is that while you attest to the part of God's Word (there is right, wrong, and accountability) you deny the very same word when you proclaim there is no God and no accountability, ... your very practice condemns you.

Ever heard of "winning the battle, but losing the war?"

To whom is this post directed?

Magdlyn · 05-26-2004, 10:35 AM

Rev, you have stopped being boring and started being silly.

You do not quote anyone, so unless I go back and reread a bit, I do not know who called you a liar.

Just because the biblical authors attempted to write about right and wrong, does not discount the fact that atheists and practitioners of other faiths (remember, Xtianity is not the only religion, I think that did not sink in the first time I mentioned it) have not tried to define morality as well. Talk about being myopic! hehe!

Soul Invictus · 05-26-2004, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Timothy G. Muse

The very fact that you acknowledge there is truth and untruth, right and wrong is a testimony of God's law written on your hearts.

This is incorrect. Acknowledging truth or untruth, or rather fact and falsity, simply attests that information can either be of merit or not. It is not an affirmation to the veracity of God's word, but rather an observation of the self-evident.

Starboy · 05-26-2004, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Timothy G. Muse

What I also find humorous is this, you call me a liar. What is the standard you use? Am I to be judged by "your" wisdom, or "someone else's". ... Ever heard of "winning the battle, but losing the war?"

[removed]I would prefer that it were not a battle. That those that wished to have faith, whatever it may be would be free to do so but that they would have the decency to understand that they are frauds if they would profess this faith as "truth" and reality to others when all they have is faith.

Starboy

05-26-2004, 10:25 AM	#135
Rev. Timothy G. Muse Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Brandon, Mississippi Posts: 1,892	Why do most Christians violate the 10 Commandments? (O, ye hypocrites) What I also find humorous is this, you call me a liar. What is the standard you use? Am I to be judged by "your" wisdom, or "someone else's". The very fact that you acknowledge there is truth and untruth, right and wrong is a testimony of God's law written on your hearts. The only thing is that while you attest to the part of God's Word (there is right, wrong, and accountability) you deny the very same word when you proclaim there is no God and no accountability, ... your very practice condemns you. Ever heard of "winning the battle, but losing the war?"

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05-26-2004, 10:35 AM	#138
Magdlyn Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 2,230	Rev, you have stopped being boring and started being silly. You do not quote anyone, so unless I go back and reread a bit, I do not know who called you a liar. Just because the biblical authors attempted to write about right and wrong, does not discount the fact that atheists and practitioners of other faiths (remember, Xtianity is not the only religion, I think that did not sink in the first time I mentioned it) have not tried to define morality as well. Talk about being myopic! hehe!

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