Peter Kirby

Now that I've drawn you in with the title, the reason that I've asked is that I am already supposed to assume that it is. My teacher has instructed me, and the class, to construct a chiasm of Mark's Gospel out of the pericopes, or groups of pericopes (or paragraphs or what-have-you). This is the sideways V shape, naturally, with say the center straddling some slice of chapters 8, 9, 10. (So, the center may be in chapters 8 and 9, 9 and 10, all three, or any one.)

If I could have some thoughts or suggestions in the next four to six hours, that would be best. Sorry for the short notice (and for seemingly making you do my homework!).

best,
Peter Kirby

Amaleq13

You're taking a class from Vorkosigan?

Peter Kirby

Not unless Vork is actually a short woman in California...

I'm trying to do something here, and it looks like it will take a tour de force to be any good. Here are some of the possible units (which can be combined) in the last few chapters:

Mark 14:1-11 Jesus is annointed
Mark 14:12-31 Passover supper
Mark 14:32-52 Jesus is arrested
Mark 14:53-65 Jesus before priests
Mark 14:66-72 Peter denies Jesus
Mark 15:1-20 Jesus is tried before Pilate
Mark 15:21-47 Jesus is crucified and buried
Mark 16:1-8 Women go to anoint Jesus

Actually, that looks like it could be a chiasm if we split crucifixion and burial. Ignoring that, however, we have to do (I have to do) a "chiasm" for the whole of Mark.

Does anybody have ideas on how to match up the beginning sections with the ending sections?

Does anyone have an idea on what the center is?

I've found that you can work outwards in, or inwards out, in order to find these things.

best,
Peter Kirby

Vorkosigan

I have tried and tried and tried, but it won't match up. You can match the two conflict story sections, but one is out of place. Bethsaida screws everything up, because some of those are Markan things from elsewhere, and some are invented. The gospel actually pivots in Mark 10, not Mark 8 where everyone puts it.

I stored some musings here

http://users2.ev1.net/%7Eturton/GMark/GMarkgiant.html

Note that gethsemane and temptation in Mk 1 are linked, drawn from same story in Elijah legend.

Also, could you run my chiasms past your teacher and see what she thinks. That ought to be fun.

My overall structural reconstruction would be as a gigantic doublet, with the Transfiguration = Resurrection. I think that would work better. Note that the whole gospel, as Neil Godfrey pointed out to me, is prefigured in Mark 1.

Wish I had more time!

Vorkosigan

Also, giant chiasms were used in ancient lit of which Mark is defintely one. Winkler's Ancient Greek Novels, on p115, has a chiasm that maps Achilles Tatius' The Incredible Things Beyond Thule. Fucking gorgeous. You should be able to access an image of it at:

http://users2.ev1.net/%7Eturton/GMark/winkler.jpg

I doubt it will help you understand Mark, but think how cool you'll look when you stroll into class wielding that!

Peter Kirby

Michael, can you tell me more about how the story pivots in chapter ten? I think that if I get the center done well, the rest I can just 'wing it'.

best,
Peter Kirby

Vorkosigan

Not really, because I started from the ends under the assumption that Mark had an ending that went past 16:8. Triangulating from that, it seemed that the second half of the story would wind up pivoting in chpater 10 -- it is more compressed. Plus, there doesn't seem to be anything on the other side of Mark 8 to match the three passion predictions. But if you move them across te divide, then thye can mate Peter's three denials, perhaps.


But I got bogged down in Mark 11-12. I think there has been some significant re-arrangement of material, especially in Mark 10 and 11:1-27. I thought the chiasm seems to work better if Mark has a large block of teaching material and conflict stories before he enters Jerusalem. Then the Synagogue/Demons scene in Mk 1 would match with the Temple Ruckus in Mk. 11, with teaching following/preaceding So I wonder if Mark 11 and 12 have been flipped and Mark 10 eviscerated, with material resorted.

Also, there is the problem of JBap's death, which is certainly an expansion, if not an interpolation outright. Gotta go, am in writing class

Chris Weimer

I swear, isn't there some hypothesis going around that the ending of John (post Passion) is the original ending of Mark? Did I just imagine this? Is there evidence for this? Can it be made into a chiasm?

baffled,

Chris

Vorkosigan

Chris, just for you...

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=119828

Bede

No, Mark is not just one big chiasmus. That said, you can slice and dice any text you like and call it anything. Doesn't tell you a thing about the author but quite a lot about ourselves.

Turton's particular effort is debunked here.

Best wishes

Bede

Bede's Library -faith and reason